 | Home > Technical > Badly worn drive shaft / flange |
 
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6324   
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Clive - good luck with the project.
out of interest have they done many miles? |
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21st Apr 2015 7:10am |
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| Clive Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Littleborough Posts: 467  
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About 130'000 miles.
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21st Apr 2015 12:55pm |
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| zone30 Member Since: 07 Sep 2012 Location: Gent Posts: 669  
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Maybe go for HD flanges, I hear the grip more of the teeth... true?
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21st Apr 2015 1:04pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6324
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thanks
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21st Apr 2015 2:21pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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What is the red dust? Mine look like this currently: Front  Click image to enlarge Rear Click image to enlarge I'm just wondering if it is best to keep them dry and ensure the dust cap fits securely or pack with grease? |
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22nd Apr 2015 9:39am |
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| Clive Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Littleborough Posts: 467
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The red dust is powdered rust from within the splined section, I'm gonna pack the new ones with grease
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22nd Apr 2015 11:12am |
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| shaggydog Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 3347 
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The red dust used to be ether drive flange or halfshaft.
Do not keep them dry they need to be greased. Best to remove the flange thoroughly grease the shaft and then refit. Some advocate using a bit of EP90 on them but I found it was more likely to leak out of the cover. Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197 Self confessed mileage hunter  |
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22nd Apr 2015 11:13am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Well judging by the oil/grease stains around the flanges on mine they are not dry. I don't think the outer face of the shafts under the dust caps should be greased, should they?
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22nd Apr 2015 2:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17678 
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There are two schools of thought for this problem.
1 - grease the splines thoroughly with a moybdenum disulphide based grease, and regrease periodically. 2 - for the rear axle (this won't work in the front unless the swivels are the old EP90 lubicated type) remove the oil seal that is fitted inside the stub axle, so that the axle oil can migrate along the halfshaft to the splines. If you leave them dry the splines will fail through fretting in an unbelievably short time. I have Ashcroft HD flanges and halfshafts which are much better that the OE parts, but even these still need lubrication. Since they have screw-on caps, I have been tempted to fit a grease nipple on the cap and pump a shot of grease in periodically. The only thing stopping me is that eventually the only place the grease can go is into the wheel-bearings. |
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22nd Apr 2015 2:18pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17678
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@Supacat,
The leakage round the outside of your flanges will be lubricant from the wheel-bearings seeping through the gasketted joint between the hub and the flange. Grease from the wheel-bearings will not do anything to help lubricate the splines between the halfshaft and drive flange, since the rotation of the hub flings it in the opposite direction. The earlier design of hub had no oil seal insice the stub axle, which meant that axle oil could migrate from the axle tube along the halfshaft and lubricate the splines. In the old days the same method worked at the front where EP90 from the swivel housing migrated along the outser driveshaft and provided the same beneficial lubrication. For some reason LR decided to start fitting seals in the stub axles, which has stopped this lubrication mechanism, and this is what causes the fretting problems. (No-one seems to know why they did this, but it was about the time that the swivels went ot a one-shot grease lubrication arrangement which woudl stop it happening at the front, and for a while rear halfshafts had an intergral flange which needed no lubrication. Also, there are some issues of oil-dilution in the wheelbearing grease). The fact remains however that you MUST grease these splines or lubricate them in some way, or they will fret and wear away in a short time - it is not unknown for them to fail in under 10k miles. |
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22nd Apr 2015 2:25pm |
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| Clive Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Littleborough Posts: 467
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I've just spent most of the day replacing all four drive flanges, rear half shafts and front CV joints.
Rear ones are dead easy but the fronts need a bit more effort with removing the calipers, discs and hubs. All fitted now, bearings re-packed with grease with copious amounts of it spread over the shaft ends and flange mating surfaces. I have to say, it's a vast improvement in the way it drives, no more clunky gear changes |
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22nd Apr 2015 9:01pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1333 
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After seeing the pictures in this topic I decided to check out all four hubs on my MY12 110 this evening.
It has only done 10k miles but I found tell tale traces of red dust in both rear dust caps and on the splines after the drive flanges were removed. The fronts were in better order but like the rears they were bone dry and unlike the red dust on the rears they had a slight blackened powdery coating to them. I wonder if the front drive shafts are made from a different steel composition? I didn't have any moly based grease so I just blathered the shaft splines and the flanges with plenty of lithium grease as used on prop joints and track rod ends etc. Hoping this will be OK 
Its quite sad to see that such basic errors are being made during assembly. What on earth are they playing at? |
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22nd Apr 2015 10:27pm |
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558
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Front splines are actually the end of cv not shaft , so yes are made of different tępe of hardened steel hence different colour
only ever used normal general purpose grease in 30 odd years and never had a problem with a drive flange |
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22nd Apr 2015 10:57pm |
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| Nidge Member Since: 27 Jan 2008 Location: Kildare Ireland Posts: 821  
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Happened to me too the other night on a 90 I just bought, it had just been serviced too
Let the clutch out a tad quick taking of on a hill and bang, rear drive flange let go. Into diff lock and limped home. To my horror all 4 flanges were dry as a bone, set about changing them, in one of the hubs 2 of bolts had been sheered off before and just stuffed back in the hole with some flange seal....unbelievable what people do 
N. |
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23rd Apr 2015 8:12am |
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