TJ101 wrote:

Any of the site sponsors can do a removable remap

TJ101 wrote:

Bell Auto Services (Bas) http://bellautoservices.co.uk/

Alive Tuning http://www.alivetuning.com/

Rica http://www.rica-engineering.com/choosecar.aspx

Opps I forgot another good guy

IRB (Porney) http://www.irbdevelopments.com/home.html



Says it how it is  California F1, 75th 110 "Kermit", 50th Ann V8, 90 V8 Hybrid, 55 Series 1

Main Brian James Trailer Dealer for South West UK

Porny wrote:

The problem with plug in boxes is actually the same issue as you get with poor tuning...

All modern (i.e Puma, TDV6, TDV8) LR diesels use a torque based strategy...

In simple terms:

There is a base line fuel PW map, but fuelling is actually based around a torque demand map. Where by the ECU knows exactly what fuel, boost, injection timing, fuel rail pressure is needed to give the torque/power demanded by the driver (within the capability of the engine/standard calibration) - taking into account altitude, air intake temps etc etc.
There is a lot more to it than this – but this is the short version.

Gone are the days where to get more power from a diesel you simply increase PW (fuel) to get more fuel to get more power... and the resultant clouds of smoke.


A plug in box is a dumb device that doesn't look at what the vehicle is doing, what altitude, temperature etc etc - but simply adds additional fuel to give the sensation of power.

Typically this is done in three ways - increasing PW (which has problems), confusing the fuel rail sensor (making the ECU think it's lower than it actually is) or by changing the response of the coolant temperature sensor (as you get more fuel at lower temps)... or the tuning box will do a combination of the above.

Why's this so bad....

Well, increasing pulse width is very dangerous - it puts fuel in too late (as it adds additional fuel at the end of what the ECU is demanding) which will lead to un-burnt fuel and bore wash. It drives the injector drive too hard (which can damage the ECU) and a few other factors. (People remapping modern diesels that don’t know what they are doing also adjust PW wrongly!).

Playing with Fuel Rail pressure can kill fuel the pump (high pressure), can lead to a damaged fuel rail and takes components outside of their working range (and we are talking of high pressure – over 1200bar)

Frigging the coolant sensor leads to over fuelling and thus bore was as above.


All of the above are bad - and will be detrimental to the engine and engine life (especially with regards to bore wash – where the excess diesel injected at the wrong time washes the cylinder wall – removing all of the lubricating oil).

But my biggest concern is as mentioned above - it's a dumb box.

A modern engine has numerous conditions where the ECU will force de-rate (i.e limp home) to save damage to the engines and conditions. This could be over or under boost faults (I.e. a spit hose), overheating, injector faults etc.

The problem is that the plug in box will not see any of these conditions – and will keep adding fuel. So the engine is trying to de-rate – and the box is going Power, Power – we need more power. Result – one dead engine.

There are also safety considerations….

Have you ever tried left foot breaking a modern car? Or left foot braking an Auto to launch it off the mark?

The ECU calibration will typically allow you to do this for 30 seconds –and then will de-rate the engine. Why – because it thinks there is something wrong.

It thinks that there is a fault and the engine is running away (i.e. not being controlled by the throttle – so for example the throttle is stuck on). With a plug in box, again, if the engine starts to de-rate, the box its thinking – more, we need more – and still adds additional fuel – so will not allow the engine to go to its base fuelling level. This could be very dangerous in certain conditions – going downhill fully loaded for example.

In my opinion, back in the day you could get away with a plug in box – but diesel technology has advanced so quickly they are miles behind!!

And if you think they are bad now – lets consider the new 2.2 (or any modern diesel with a DPF).

When doing a ReGen you use the post fuelling to control the burn (modern diesels don’t inject fuel once per stroke as per antiquated diesels)…

So you have something that is operating at 800 degrees C in the engine bar – and it is being precisely controlled by the engine ECU. But the plug in box doesn’t know this…
And again – it will ramp the PW up further – suddenly you have a DPF that is not being controlled by the engine ECU and is getting very hot! This will lead to a thermal event.

I would love to see the plug in box companies taking responsibility for this!!

And LR isn’t stupid – plug in boxes will leave traces – these will not be picked up by a dealer – but for example if a new engine is needed under warranty, LR themselves will investigate further.


One thing I don’t understand is that people are happy to spend £20,000 plus on a vehicle and then think they are getting a bargain when they see a tuning box for £100 (or in fact a remap for £150).

Land Rover spend millions developing engine calibrations, but done properly there are improvements that can be done safely. But these improvements need to be tested thoroughly, and not just guessed at. Take 2.4 tuning, I have spent over 350 hours on a vehicle dyno alone, excluding all of the other road based testing including driveability. This is the reason why I charge £495 + vat for a new calibration – because I need to get my investment back and because without this level of testing I will not put my name to my work.


This is just my opinion….

Also, I'm not a fan or swapping calibrations (i.e standard and tuned) without redoing pump and pilot injection learn - and making sure everything is set up correctly - but sometimes this is unavoidable due to location.



Ian

great write up the the mechanically inept - me  2020 P300 HSE

davidwhittaker wrote:

Very good points everyone! I will strongly consider ditching the box in favour of a proper remap.

What's the point in asking for advice if you ignore it, eh?!

Has anyone had any 'removable' remaps be spotted by dealers? I assume they wouldn't be but really can't afford to have my warranty voided! Although I don't think they're too picky (they don't even check service history etc at my garage)

Pickles wrote:

Porny...Brilliant post. Thank You.
Could you give a brief run down on what you do to a 2.2 Puma with respect to tuning.
Do you change intercoolers etc? What power & torque do you achieve?
I suppose the other thing about "tunes" that I've always thought about is the extra "strain" put upon items like crank, rods & pistons etc?
Cheers, Pickles.

The honest answer is that I havent had much time lately to do more development work on the 2.2, and I'm still trying to get my interface finished to allow reliable reflashing of the ECU without opening it. I do have new exhaust that will be available soon.

We have had one of our development 2.2's running at 150bhp and 460Nm without any effort (my second level of tune). in fact we did push a bit further, but at the moment all of my time is taken up with other engine conversions (including old school 300tdi builds - bored and stroked to 2.8L, all balanced bottom end, mildly ported head, my variable geometry turbo etc) - and I have a special 2.2 engine to build

For an entry level conversion the intercooler stays standard (except in high temperature locations), but the next level up needs the more efficent cooler for all markets.

It is true that cylinder pressures increase - which in turn will increase loading on the crank etc, but even with a standard engine there is a safe window you can push into without causing increased wear and thus be detrimental to the engine. This is why you should only trust a reputable company with a good understanding of base engines as well as calibration.... not just someone with a laptop that promises big power lol.

You need a good understanding of the mechanics before any tuning.

Ian IRB
The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers.

www.IRBdevelopments.com

www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments

www.integrated316.com

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