 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Is a 4 point roll cage any use? |
 
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| Phoenix90 Member Since: 04 Mar 2012 Location: Cornwall Posts: 377   
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Peter, looks good, save the hassle of getting two different ones! Looking at the photo do the front external bars that run down the body from the window frame to B pillar go above the roof on that one? I barely have enough room to get it in the garage as it is and the advantage of the one Ze is looking at is the bars don't raise the roof level at all. |
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6th Nov 2012 6:02pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731  
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This is my concern, although SD is a reputable firm and (in my näivity) I don't think they produce "pose-only" products. The light bar thing is just a joke really (it wouldn't fit in any garage) but I just want a little bit more survival space if wife and I take a tumble (yes - haha). As I said, I saw a 90 with the windscreen collapsed today and I was hoping to get a bit of protection with minimum cost and hassle
 Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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6th Nov 2012 6:09pm |
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| Phoenix90 Member Since: 04 Mar 2012 Location: Cornwall Posts: 377
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Ze , are you going to need a different RAI as well? Do they clash? Also will roof racks that mount in the gutter still work with this bar do you know?
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6th Nov 2012 6:24pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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RAI is off
Concentrating on tuning for now - airflow, turbo, intercooler... and of course the BAS remap 
May need the rollbar as a result 
I guess some gutter mounts may be okay, as the side bars sit out quite a way. For now, I have a girly top box that mounts further back  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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6th Nov 2012 6:28pm |
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| Romadog Member Since: 07 Jul 2011 Location: Powys Posts: 1749 |
best fitted by someone whose done it before as although its bolted together it isnt like meccano to fit !
Depending on which rack you have fitted is to if it will fit with cage. some racks have option of bracket to attach to bars. If You use SD cage mentioned earlier, the bars go to top of roof ,then this shoulnt be a problem. |
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6th Nov 2012 6:53pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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Hi Matt, yes I am trying to get some info/availability/prices/carriage costs etc for you.
In general terms when a Defender rolls the front of the wings hits ground first due to weight distribution. Next to hit is front of the roof above windscreen. This is likely to cave in due to the strength (or lack off) in windscreen surround and damage quickly move backwards. The driver/passengers head is quickly in the damage zone. A full roll cage will give best protection at a cost both in money terms and in space lost inside vehicle. Will basically just a front roll give protection in the event of a roll over? Well anything which absorbs some of the energy in the event of a roll over is a good thing. Having been involved in a vehicle which has rolled without a roll cage it is not a pleasant experience!. The windscreen frame broke and caved in a fraction BUT a lot of energy was absorbed by the full length roofrack which deformed, absorbed energy and spread the force over the full roof rather progressive/y loading from front of the roof. Basically people have to try and assess their needs/dangers and decide what is the best means of reducing that danger. Also with any after market gear check compatibility between them as not all RAI will be compatible with roll bars. Brendan |
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6th Nov 2012 7:20pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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I think that was exactly what I needed to hear
As for the DIY aspect, I have a mate who is pretty handy at all things Defender (also an aeronautical engineer), so I'll ask him his opinion. It doesn't look too complicated and he might even improve it Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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6th Nov 2012 7:51pm |
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| Steve B Member Since: 22 May 2009 Location: Warwickshire Posts: 586 
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Hi,
Don't be afraid to fit it yourself, just take your time. I fitted mine myself, this took me 4 days and lots of cups of tea 
I started at the front and worked back, I pre built it all first to make sure all parts were there and everything lined up. What sounds scary is that I did not measure anything after checking everything was there or thereabouts. With the way the vehicles are no 2 are the same, come to think the left and right maybe different on the same vehicle. Steve  |
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6th Nov 2012 8:09pm |
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| jerseyman Member Since: 21 Jul 2009 Location: Jersey Posts: 279 |
I have just spotted that as well as the 4 Point cage that ZED is referring to, SD also sell something that they call a style bar http://www.safetydevices.com/expedition/pr...esent/626/
This is the the one that presumably is an SVX / TR look-a-like. By implication this seems to imply that the 4 point is a pukka roll over bar? Although from the photos, I cant see any difference between the two. |
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7th Nov 2012 10:20am |
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| pouf Member Since: 05 Aug 2010 Location: Athens Posts: 456  
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the internal cage is not so difficult to fit it,believe me, you can do it yourself. www.newfoundland.gr |
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7th Nov 2012 10:39am |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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I might be imagining it but the "Style Bar" looks thicker (it's 2.5" diameter). As is typical, SD don't state the thickness of the one I want - why is there never any consistency  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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7th Nov 2012 12:25pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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looking at the specs the 4 point is certified (as roll over protection) and the svx ones not.
IF made out of adequate material i see no reason why the SVX would not add protection (this type is quite standard on tractors) but i guess the reason for not being certified lies in construction rules stipulating 4 point anchoring as a minimum and as this is not the case no need to make it in adequate material and thereby reducing cost/increasing margin. It might even be a safety benefit if made out of cardboard as the roof construction will be not be damaged that much by the lightbar at impact. Might be worth giving them a call.  |
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7th Nov 2012 3:24pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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If you are going to the trouble of fitting a rollcage, or any form of roll over protection, then I think it prudent to look at the relevant section of the MSA Bluebook:
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_for...Safety.pdf and consider if what you are fitting would comply. I think the easiest way of getting some protection, at least in a 90, would be a hoop fitted behind the front seats but this would need bracing legs running back to the chassis; see drawing 60(i). This would be a 4 point. Alternatively, for a 110 a 2nd hoop could be fitted behind the 2nd row and seats and the rear stays run off from there. This would be a 6 point cage. Any reputable manufacturer should be able to confirm their specifications but note that SD make kits that lto the uninitiated may look to be compliant but are not. Note I'm not knocking SD as these kits make no claim to be compliant. |
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7th Nov 2012 3:35pm |
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| JSG Member Since: 12 Jul 2007 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2412 
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The Tombraider 'cage' is just for show and about as structurally useful as Swiss Cheese. It bolts to the front wings and the rear body cappings only - it is described as a 'Roof Rack Support System' and wouldn't even protect the screen. If you want any level of protection then you need a proper cage bolted or welded to the chassis. John http://www.hampshire4x4response.co.uk 2011 Tdci 110 CSW XS |
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7th Nov 2012 4:54pm |
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