 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Enough of the 2.2 slagging!! |
 
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| RockJaw Member Since: 15 Oct 2013 Location: United States Posts: 317   
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Keith sees us all right - way to go Keith, you are spot on. I been with Landie Defenders for over 35 years now. First army and now mining industry. Even as a Defender addict I got to tell you, they USED to be the greatest 4X4 X far, but now Defenders just suck big time since the Brits allowed themselves to be ruled by the commies in Brussels. Our mining group made the mistake of receiving eight 2.2 TDCi 110's in June this year. 2 were sent to Tajikstan and the rest to Togo and Ivory Coast where we have dozens of old Defenders, loads of SI's and II's, all sorts, and dating back as far as 1960's through to early 2000's. The new 2.2 TDCi is like a sickly runt next to these old boys. Late September one of the new 2.2 110's in Tajikstan hit a pothole and damaged wiring to the DPF. Brand new with 4000 miles on the clock. The Ugandan engineer driving the vehicle was found murdered, with a fully equipped toolkit, next to his disabled Defender, because he did not have a fully equipped electronics laboratory in his toolkit to deal with the ECU to fix problem. Brussels thought it best to disable the vehicle under these conditions. Brilliant!! Absolutely F-all wrong with the vehicle, nada, zip zero, except $5000.00 worth of engineering technology designed to do nothing else except disable the vehicle if it cannot detect the DPF (which also cannot be removed in emergencies). He basically died for the socialist cause, poor b@stard. If you can't fix it in the jungle or desert, then it ain't a Defender, it really is that simple. Our mining company can't adapt new Defenders for specific terrain and conditions any longer either, so we are as of 2014 planning to source old Military Landies wherever we can find them. We plan to strip them and rebuild them in our workshops. No more new Land Rover purchases for us, it is the end of a 35 year old era for our company. Get over it everyone, real Defenders will never be produced again, it really is a thing of the past. The 2.2 is but a POS toy for soccer moms and wannabe weekend warriors. They are a sad sick shadow of the real thing, the real Land Rover Defender. Those of us who use them for their originally designed purpose know the end of the era came when Brussels got involved. The 2.2 is great, if you are a soccer mom, but they are not worth dying for if you want to use them as a genuine 4X4. Trust me, none of these will last anywhere near as long as their predecessors, and if they do, you will need to bust a bank to keep them going. ****CENSORED**** |
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20th Oct 2013 7:40pm |
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| Likeomg Member Since: 29 Jun 2012 Location: Lake District / Newcastle Posts: 2641 
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i have one on hire currently, no stereo base spec and im actually impressed with the noise level, dont think it has as much poke as a 2.4, but then again its only 3 weeks old with 500 miles...
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20th Oct 2013 7:50pm |
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| sweepc Member Since: 19 Jun 2011 Location: uk Posts: 568 
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Mine has not been without its problems, but overall im happy with it, it is a little more refined which for my uses is ideal. However I miss the oldies that can be fixed at the side of the road with a bit of sticky tape to get you home.
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20th Oct 2013 8:00pm |
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| NoDo$h Member Since: 18 Aug 2007 Location: Buried in deer guts in Dorset Posts: 972 
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Rock jaw, that sucks - and I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly.
54 Freelander modded for mud 2008 D3 SE 2010 90 XS SW 1978 88 Series 3 undergoing surgery with a new owner 2007 90 County Truck Cab - gone 2006 D3 SE - gone 2004 Freelander Sport - gay 1999 Disco V8 ES rotted to bits |
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20th Oct 2013 8:02pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1582  
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I thought you could buy export defenders without dpf.
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20th Oct 2013 8:20pm |
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| big steve Member Since: 24 Dec 2009 Location: hertfordshire Posts: 2456 
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You can they have a cat that looks the same instead 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit ashcroft atb in transfer box 6 speed auto in build |
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20th Oct 2013 8:44pm |
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| BigWheels Member Since: 21 Mar 2010 Location: Somerset Posts: 1405 
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The cause of RockJaws's rant is the reason why pre TD5 Defenders & predecessors are bought & stolen so readily for export. And why the armed forces use/d older models. They can be repaired/bodged if necessary to get you home without limp modes, gadgets, computers & uneccessary stuff where they don't matter.
Other modern trucks for the developed world have electronic gizmos as well. Not just Defenders. The "Puma II" with DPF filters & the 2.2, now that LR has announced Defender's demise officially, seems superflous. They might as well have continued with the 2.4 for Defender's few remaining years. I'm amazed that a mining company operating in countries such as RockJaw named, with the knowledge of expertise available for vehicle maintenace, would have bought vehickes such as modern Defenders, rather than more basic mechanical ones. The original "old Landy" image-icon exists in its chassis, bodywork & looks. But that's where it really ends. There are parts of the world where progress is comparable to Britain when the Series & early coil sprung Land Rovers were king. That is where & who they should be made for now. That is where the original Land Rovers still have a place. And I'll keep driving my Puma in the UK as long as it can be, & I can afford it! Land Rover Defenders. 67 years heritage, minimal appearance changes, still going strong all over the world. Not a fashion vehicle, but fashionable to own. Made for the needy, not the greedy. Ta ta Defender |
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20th Oct 2013 9:16pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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Interesting debate especially about the DPF.
I wonder how people who live in the Channel Islands (and there is quite a high percentage of Defenders in relation to populous) regard the DPF in general and how on earth do they get it to the temperature to 'regenerate' with the restriction in speed etc over there. There is also the much publicised 'rev hang' issue too with the 2.2. Nevertheless it is human nature to profess whatever you own to be the best. Having driven both I think I know where I'm sat.  If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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20th Oct 2013 9:25pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4677 
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First and foremost I must express my deep regret and sympathy at the death of the driver mentioned in the post by ROCKJAW. We all dread breakdowns as an inconvenience but rarely will you be in danger of losing your life because of it.
I have two Puma 2.4's and though I find them great to live with from a driving point of view I wholeheartedly concur with ROCKJAW's sentiments. Any modern vehicle that has to comply with the ever increasing plethora of Brussels directives on emissions will not be field repairable.Most modern 4wd vehicles today depend on electronics to keep wheels in contact with the ground instead of the live beam axle arrangement on our Defenders. Seemingly you get a better ride and better cornering.In the real world a working 4wd vehicle would be exscused much of the Brussels directives and be allowed to keep it simple and as a result be "bush" repairable. But how many would buy the Defender if it still had a tdi engine fitted? Sadly it would have been out of production long ago as sales would have been very low. I drove a 200 tdi for 16 years as the family car and loved it. If I'd been in ROCKJAW's position I'd still be driving it. Sadly age has caught up with me and I find that the civilised Puma more relaxing to drive, especially on long journeys. If the Puma had not arrived our tdi would still be the family car instead of being in storage. With the series Land Rover (I have a series 111 diesel) and the tdi you felt like a "REAL" man driving them. Heavy clutch, notchy steering, bad demisting etc. Mores the point "PEOPLE" thought you were different because you were able to "DRIVE" one of these things. With the Puma it is different. It is so easy to drive. Today I overtook four slow moving vehicles by just putting my foot to the floor in the Puma and it was accomplished without drama and in perfect safety.Doubt if I'd had even chanced it in the tdi let alone the series 111. Sometimes I feel a bit of a fraud driving the Puma as it is so easy to drive but people still think that it takes the effort to drive it as it took to drive earlier types. Seems if you need a repairable friendly Defender the rebuilding of older types as espoused by ROCKJAW seems the way to go. I actually see no reason why Land Rover cannot facilitate and nurture this concept by supplying vehicles to older spec in knock down form for people to construct them selves. Land Rover won't have to worry about regulations as they are not building the vehicles. Once again I deeply regret the death of the driver.It does put things into perspective. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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20th Oct 2013 10:38pm |
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| rossy Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Co. Roscommon Posts: 1296 
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 Sorry Rockjaw. Our 110 is a soccer mom wagon as it spends most of its time ferrying kids to school, karate, piano lessons etc. But I paid for the goddamn thing and I'll use it for whatever I goddamn want ! ( except I normally get it when the tank needs filling up) |
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20th Oct 2013 11:11pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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As with the 2.4 and the initial problems with blanking the EGR etc. I'm sure as things develop such as remapping and other 'electronic tweaks' the 2.2 will eventually become as practical and 'adjustable' as all it's predecessors as long as your prepared to put your hand in your pocket. Isn't that one of the traits that still make is so desirable for some.....'Individuality?' If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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21st Oct 2013 7:04am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665 
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I just drove ~60 miles for the first time in a 2.2 Defender 110.
Compared to my own 2.4 110, it was different, but not better or worse (to drive). The 2.2 is slightly smoother and if anything appears to have a bit more torque low down (1500-1600 revs). There's a steep hill driving South out of inverness (from sea level, to 214metres above sea level). It was hard to qualify, but the 2.4 did seem to have slightly more pull from 55mph in 6th gear (1800+ revs), but varied dependant on revs. Other than the DPF issue, I can't see any problems with the 2,2. If I owned a 2.2, I would be a happy man, and once out of warranty, a trip to BAS or Alive to have the DPF decommed would be on my list to avoid possible DPF issues (real or imagined). Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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21st Oct 2013 2:25pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4677
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Went to work today and the topic of conversation was a Nissan Qashqai someone had bought that came with no spare wheel, no jack and no wheel brace. Seems that is common these days.
Regarding Land Rover. It is a pity that due to the ever increasing use of electronics and sensors to comply with EU regulations, that manufacturers are not oblied to fit or supply with the vehicle a full diagnostic kit and a manual detailing how faults can be rectified. This could have been of benefit in the sad case described by RockJaw. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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21st Oct 2013 4:37pm |
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232
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The DPF on the 2.2 has been a problem for quite a few owners now especially the slow moving town cars that can't meet the speed and heat needed for an efficient regeneration process. And infact on the flip of that some cars that get worked very very hard can also have problems as the DPF overheats and goes into melt down (on rare occasions)
We have a few months ago now for a company had to produce a DPF off remap for them as well as limiting them down to as low as 35kmh for their particular legislation. Up to the point of me doing the rework on the engine ecu they were eating DPF nearly on a weekly biases. http://www.deltrain.com Now they are gone from the engine ecu and the internals taken out of the exhaust they have had no more problems. I'm working on a full front pipe for them at the moment so they can just swap them out as they build the trains. Pete. |
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21st Oct 2013 6:38pm |
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