Home > Puma (Tdci) > Emissions Test Failed on Dutch MOT equivalent - HELP |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
So I have the car back now so will continue trying to diagnose however a few builds to answer some questions:
- reverting the tune did not help. If anything the reading was higher after (8.5m!!) however I was unable to do a test just prior so comparing to the 3.5m last time i was there. In any case this is a huge increase and honestly has me very confused as I dont think the tune could be the culprit of that much variation! - after chatting with the mechanic my understanding is that while my car does have a dpf it does not have any form of self regen mechanisms. And if I physically look at the DPF there are no additional pipes or cables installed or coming off the DPF from factory so that seems to make some sense. Some pictures attached which show the lack of additional sensors etc however clearly the dpf in place. So it must be a passive system of sorts - unsure what years and countries got what however originally this was a German car too to add complexity! So given this I dont believe I would be able to read any pressure reading since there doesnt appear to be a sensor and also dont think I would be able to run any sort of static regen - however please let me know if I am wrong here! Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge - I may be using the incorrect terminology when I say EURO4 however in the NL and various other EU countries there are certain zones (mostly cities like Amsterdam) where only 'low emissions' vehicles are allowed to go - for example https://www.amsterdam.nl/en/traffic-transport/low-emission-zone/ So only diesel vehicles with Euro4 or above rating are allowed into those areas. This was one of the reasons I picked a late model defender as for whatever reason they are the only ones who were given a Euro4 rating here in Holland. And, since 1 Jan 2023, in order to retain the Euro4 rating here you must pass the 1million per cubic cm emissions test as part of your annual APK (i.e. MOT) |
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11th May 2023 2:21pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
Chatted to the mechanic about it possibly being fuel side related and he was very confident that if it was something like a leaking injector it would be fairly obvious for other reasons such as the noise at idle, running rough, noticeable fuel usage etc. And also that any minor leak wouldn't be the cause of such high emissions anyway as a fully functioning dpf would be able to handle that. |
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11th May 2023 2:26pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
Thanks thats awesome and I will keep an eye on that and also reach out to see the kms. What I dont know is that with a passive DPF system is there any warning light at all since there are no sensors....? What I do know is that the professional cleaning company didn't note any restriction in flow when they were cleaning it. So its not collapsed or anything however it could still have some larger than factory gaps or even just have 'run out' of whatever precious metals etc are being used as the filter medium! |
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11th May 2023 2:28pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
I had not heard of the Nanocom before now.....damn you! Is it worth the $'s? What do most people end of using it for? |
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11th May 2023 2:38pm |
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blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17374 |
I'm not quite sure what you're meaning with this. In the normal course of events your DPF will regenerate when required in what is now the usual manner for nearly all cars, namely extra fuel will be injected during the exhaust strokes of the engine. Some of this fuel will then pass with the exhaust gas to the DPF where it will be ignited to burn off the soot (the rest will helpfully dribble past the piston rings and dilute the oil in the sump, ultimately leading to premature engine failure, such is the price of green-ness). I'm not sure what you are expecting to see on the DPF itself. |
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11th May 2023 2:44pm |
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dotom Member Since: 04 Feb 2012 Location: Dortmund Posts: 90 |
If possible try two or three tanks of Aral Ultimate Diesel or Shell V-Power Diesel. That also cleans everything... and also it runs smoother.
Best regards Tom Defender 90 XS, 10-2015, Corris grey |
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11th May 2023 3:27pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
I got the impression that some systems actually have a direct feed to the filter itself instead of relying on the process you describe
Something like the attached I suppose |
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11th May 2023 3:28pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
Cheers Tom I have always sprung for the premium diesel so it's all the car has ever seen during my ownership |
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11th May 2023 3:29pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
Does anyone have a handy summary at all of the different dpf systems etc for the defenders as I am inclined to beleive he knows his stuff and he was clear that my year doesn't have any active regen process....happy to be told otherwise though! |
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11th May 2023 3:31pm |
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Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414 |
My 2.2 has a couple of sensors as follows: 1. What seems to be a lambda sensor, right on the top of the DPF cannister 2. 3x what seem to be temperature probes. I do not know if they are pt100, or just thermocouples.. I know they are 2 wire. 3. 2 pressure tapping before and after the DPF cannister which go into a differential pressure switch I google for a picture as do not have one readily available, and cam across the schematic from LRWorkshop: https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...2.2tdci#24 So cross referencing with my list above: 1. Item 25 2. Items 22,23,24 3. Item 21 (the rubber hoses and the pressure differential sensor is not shown) If you do not have the above, then I am highly suspecting that you do not have a DPF afterall. Could you have a ROW (Rest of the World) spec Defender??? If yes, how the heck did it make it to Germany or NL!! A DPF must have all those sensors to work properly - think of it like a closed loop system. Check your VIN, I find this site give gery good (and somehow reliable) information: https://www.vindecoderz.com/ to see if you really have what outside NL consider as a Euro 5. Indeed, unlike some manufacturers, JLR never made a push button on the dash to trigger a forced regen on the Defender. Note that the 2.2 ECU is not a copy paste of the Ford Transit ECU. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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11th May 2023 3:50pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
Looking at that LR workshop website there appears to be 2 different downpipes/DPF - one being EU5 and one being EU4.
I suspect that is where the difference is as the EU5 rating is much tougher once again and wondering if depending on the country of sale it was different as to what was installed from factory. There is no question that there is a physical DPF installed in my car though - not just for the fact that it was removed and physically cleaned 2 days ago! haha The VIN check simply confirms its a 2014/15 model but doesnt seem to tell me much else? |
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11th May 2023 4:11pm |
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Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414 |
I just wonder if there were any late Defenders with just a CAT.
Edit: the 8th character in your VIN is the engine. P is Euro5 with DPF. R is ROW, not Euro 5. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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11th May 2023 4:15pm |
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BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 |
Thanks Dinnu!
So my VIN's 8th character is an 'R' so ROW according to your info. So this all begs the question....what on earth is this sitting in my 2015 defender....? Click image to enlarge because it looks identical to this (https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/products/lr041312-dpf-filter-for-land-rover-defender-90-110-puma-2011-2016-ch129n497af) just with all the various hoses etc blocked off. Which does somewhat suggest it could be something like a ROW car which wouldn't usually come with a DPF however when the EU/Germany introduce some sort of emissions law then people simple bolted on the DPF part but since the ECU wasnt coded for it they simply block off the various pipes and sensors?? Which would mean it is the DPF however in the last x years since it was fitted it never did a proper regen cycle? Last edited by BaCoNMX6 on 11th May 2023 4:34pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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11th May 2023 4:30pm |
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Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414 |
I suspect it is just a CAT, as you would normally find in a 2.4, which in EU is a Euro4. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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11th May 2023 4:33pm |
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