 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Emissions Test Failed on Dutch MOT equivalent - HELP |
 
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63  
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Hey All,
So from 1 Jan 2023 in The Netherlands they introduced a Diesel emissions test as part of the annual safety check. My 2.2 Puma is due end of May and I have been having issues getting it past so wanted to see if there were any thoughts here as you solved my other (turbo overboost) issue where workshops couldn't! So as part of the dutch MOT the emissions test is a probe up the tailpipe and the reading is taken at idle. It must read below 1 Million parts of cubic cm. My initial test was over 17m however the car had been sitting over winter so that weekend (during a camping trip) I got a can of dpf cleaner and along the 1300km round trip gave it a good few highway pulls and time. After this I took it back and immediately (i.e. car was hot) the reading came down to 7m. The workshop then replaced the fuel filter and added a cleaner directly into the fuel filter. After a trip round the block the new reading was 3.5m. They repeated this in the hope it would further improve however the reading stayed at 3.5m. Figuring that a fuel additive can only do some much I left the car with them to have the DPF removed and professionally cleaned. I heard back from them today and apparently the reading is 'the same' (no figure given so assuming 3-4m). They have jumped straight to the outcome that the DPF needs replacement and while this 'could' be the case I cant shake the feeling that its a ~2k best guess. I asked if they could test fit a known 'good' one but they apparently dont have any to do that with.... This is the same shop (amongst others) who advised that my overboost issue was clearly a turbo fault and thus also require replacement and I thank myself for not listening that time...... So I wanted to jump on here and see if there is any other wisdom or other things to try/test first. Some other relevant info about the car: - No CEL or DPF light - Upgraded I/C and dpf exhaust and tuned by Alive - I have been chasing down a weird exhaust/intake noise (see my other thread - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic84690.html) and recently had a smoke test done to check for any leaks and nothing was found. Gut tells me perhaps its related in which case maybe it is a failed DPF causing the noise...? - Looking back on some fault codes I had while diagnosing the overboosting issue there was also P06BC-00 related to glow plug 4 which I never did anything about however cant imagine that could be the issue here since the tests have all been done while the car is way so I assume the glow plug isnt in use anymore anyway. All thoughts, questions, comments welcome as I am running out of time to get this solved Cheers Michael |
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8th May 2023 3:21pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1997 
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Looking at prior posts , unfortunately OP’s vehicle is a 2014 puma !
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8th May 2023 9:54pm |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 809  
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I’m curious if your Alive remap has disabled the EGR by any chance? 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.
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8th May 2023 11:15pm |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63
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Hi all, thanks for the replies.
Unfortunately it's not a question of avoiding the test as its required for my car to keep its EURO4 rating which was one of the reasons I bought this year model. I will reach out to Alive and see...worth the question! Any idea if this level of emissions is 'normal' at all? And also whether it's possible for the dpf to really be broken without any dpf light? |
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9th May 2023 5:13am |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 361 |
I have just researched this, in Switzerland there is a limit of <250.000 particles/cm³ (!). Typical measured values for functioning DPFs are <100.000. Unfortunately, there is actually evidence that your DPF is defective. What role the agr (disabled or not) should play in this is unclear to me, because the DPF must deliver.
(https://www.newsd.admin.ch/newsd/message/attachments/74421.pdf) Edit: You could try professional cleaning, there are a few providers. |
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9th May 2023 7:44am |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63
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Hi Hornet,
I have had the unit professionally cleaned as the most recent step - which unfortunately did not bring it under the limit. While I do see there is the possibility its the DPF I am mostly wondering if there are other, 'upstream', things to check first. e.g. if a fuel injector was weeping or something like that would that also cause a high reading as even a fully functioning DPF cant keep that under control. |
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9th May 2023 8:19am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5690
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The egr isn’t operational at tick over so that shouldn’t be your issue.
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9th May 2023 8:19am |
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| jwhat Member Since: 19 Jan 2011 Location: Westmeath Posts: 134  
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Can you put the standard tune back on to eliminate that? Tdci 110 DC
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9th May 2023 8:49am |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63
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I have sent an email to Alive this morning to ask them for a copy of the standard tune to try that indeed!
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9th May 2023 8:53am |
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| trevorg Member Since: 28 May 2022 Location: Aisne Posts: 51  
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My 2012 goes in to my local French Controle Technique for its compulsory pollution check tomorrow so do not fully understand the Euro 5a v Euro 5b differentiation. Is the suggestion that being a 2012 vehicle it is not necessary?
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9th May 2023 5:53pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 914 
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I think I have the wrong end of the stick?
Looking at this site https://expatinfoholland.nl/help-guides/tr...the%20RDW. Explains that the dutch have an APK which is similar to our MOT. According to that it is carried out to an EU directive https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN...4526556261 The emissions part is part 8.2.2 onwards I quote For vehicles up to emission classes Euro 5 and Euro V (9): Exhaust gas opacity to be measured during free acceleration (no load from idle up to cut-off speed) with gear lever in neutral and clutch engaged or reading of OBD. The tailpipe testing shall be the default method of exhaust emission assessment. On the basis of an assessment of equivalence, Member States may authorise the use of OBD in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations and other requirements. The puma engine in the defender is Euro 5. Is this right if so like our MOT emissions check then it is the same test. a smoke limit of 1.5M Checking my last certificate it states an opacity limit of .70 and mine went through at .19 The UK mirror the EU with reguard to this and that's what's confusing. Unless I've missed some new legislation that you can point me too. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest |
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9th May 2023 5:59pm |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1043 
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I am a little sceptical about performance upgrades. More power AND better economy, why would the manufacturer not do that, oh yes emissions.. Coal Rolling is not something that meets legislation.
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9th May 2023 6:59pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 914
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Without going OT
You can have more power when you want it and you can have more economy when you want it. Since the inital remap (august 2015) my defender has been consistent in getting about 400miles to a tank with normal pottering about, this hasn't changed even when in march 2020 i had the Taps turned up a little more. If anything the MOT in june last year recorded the cleanest smoke test to date. Previous has been .46 to .24 region. Running a standard map IMO means more fuel usage as you have to drive harder to do the normal keeping up with the traffic. A local hill that in standard when towing a trailer had me in 3rd gear with all the revs is now dispatched in 5th. I'm sure Gary and crew will be more than helpful with helping the OP as my gut says there has been a mixup somewhere along the lines as the MOT metered smoke test is a EU (And UK) universal bar. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest |
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9th May 2023 7:22pm |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184 
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What the EGR valve does is to redirect a certain amount of exhaust gases back into the inlet manifold to be used in the combustion process, reducing combustion temperatures, thus reducing Nitrous Oxide (NOx) emissions. NOx is not picked up by smoke opacity testing. I would disagree that the EGR is not operational at tick over. It is actually the opposite. At idle, the ECU will command the EGR valve for a certain percentage of exhaust gas to be recirculated, as no power is expected from the engine, to reduce NOX. As you step on the pedal and engine load increase, the ECU will instruct the EGR valve to reduce and eventually stop any exhaust gas recirculation. You need fresh air, not exhaust gas when opening the throttle and asking your engine to make power. (note: there is no exhaust gas recirculation happening in any case until the engine has reached normal working temperature). /Mat Last edited by MatLandy on 10th May 2023 3:31pm. Edited 2 times in total |
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10th May 2023 8:36am |
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