 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Shaking at 65-70mph after replacing bushes |
 
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to get back in!) and retorqued the drop arm (maybe got an 8th of a turn).
| MarkBrown Member Since: 03 Oct 2022 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 449   
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It sounds like the swivel pin pre-load to me. I had the same shaking on a 110 and although there was no play in the hubs, they were too floppy. I tightened them up to the required loading and the problem was solved. For reference it used to happen when a pot hole or bump in the road was hit, which unsettled it, presumably causing the wheel to shake from side to side. Worn bushes usually make a clonk and make the handling a bit vague.
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14th Feb 2023 9:58pm |
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| TomB8 Member Since: 17 Nov 2022 Location: West Sussex Posts: 115  
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Ok, I will try this next then.
Will need to get a seal kit or at the very least seal retainers as there isn't much left of mine. By the time I have replaced them and have the ball off I may as well replace that too. Unless I can replace the seal retainers without removing the balls?  Click image to enlarge Can I ask a really stupid question..... When buying parts, for example the swivel kit, the description is from LA930456, I know that refers to the VIN, but is it the last 8 digits of the VIN? Mine is NAXXXXXX, but N isn't listed as a year of manufacture on LRWorkshop (https://www.lrworkshop.com/vin-decoder). Just want to make sure I'm going to get the right kit. Edited to ask another stupid question.... in order to avoid spending another weekend or more (much to the displeasure of the Mrs who has not yet realised that all of my spare time will now be spent working on the defender) what happens if the swivel is a little too tight? I am considering just removing a thin shim without first removing the seal etc to delay rebuilding both sides. From watching a few youtube videos it looks like removing the seal will destroy it is that correct? |
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14th Feb 2023 11:12pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553 
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I did my swivels about a year ago. Britannica Restorations and trailer fitters toolbox videos are a good watch
If you look at the Britannica one you will see he actually assembles the hub and swivels on the bench then fits them. That unit is heavy but it would allow changing the seals without splitting everything - but if you are going to have to do the swivels anyway, why not do it now? My swivels were worse than yours in every respect, but the bolts holding on the swivel to the axle case were quite good. I think the bolts holding the swivel to the axle case are 14mm bi-hex (12 spline). I have a set of the long aviation spanners and these were really useful doing these bolts. My swivels were the older Railko type as I believe my axles are from a 200tdi - they are the 10 spline axles. You can also tell which type you have by looking at the seal retainers as there are two types. When I did my swivels I replaced my bolts too. I didn't want to put old bolts back in as I intend to keep the truck so thinking about taking them out years down the line. New bolts often come with threadlock applied but it may be worth getting some of the medium strength locktite to have to hand. I have fitted then removed and refitted lots of parts so having a wire brush, brake cleaner and threadlock is always good to have to hand for cleaning and fitting bolts. If the truck is new to you then its likely you'll be doing a bit of maintenance. A few bits and pieces that have helped me are the following; Plusgas - I now have this in an old fashioned oil can as it allows me to direct it better. The plusgas tin with the fixed spout is great when you can tilt the can to apply it, but not great when trying to apply from underneath. Heat - I bought a Rothenberger superfire 2 and map gas. Has helped me a few times! I bought the Rothenberger second hand as they are quite expensive. Aviation spanners. These are basically a long ring spanner and are useful on our older vehicles. Flare nut spanners. I bought a set and they have been really useful for the brake lines. Thread chasers - a bit like taps and dies but they clean a thread out rather than cutting like a tap.this was a useful purchase as it has lots of different sizes and thread pitches. I tend not to buy snap-on quality gear. I am not a professional mechanic, just working on my own truck, so I don't need stuff to that specification. However, some kit you need a certain standard or it can damage stuff as you are doing work. Thankfully the majority of the kit I have bought has been sufficient for my needs. Another thing, if your truck is old but new to you, have a look at electrolysis for cleaning (rust removal) take-off parts. You need to be able to let your parts stew for a day or two so no good if doing a job in a day, but if you have the truck off the road for a few days then it can be useful. I have cleaned quite a few bits now - including my swivel housings - mine were in a far worse state than yours! |
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15th Feb 2023 6:30am |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553
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I believe these are the different seal retainers, though it will be worth someone with better knowledge confirming this
Railko, 10 spline axle (I think 200tdi and older)
Then the later bearings top and bottom 24 spline (I think 300tdi and newer - though not sure about the td5 and puma etc) |
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15th Feb 2023 6:49am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17338 
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The quickest way to replace the seal and/or retainer without cutting them is to drain the oil from the axle, remove the wheel, remove and tie back the caliper, then unbolt the entire assembly of hub, swivel, ball, cv and halfshaft from the axle tube and withdraw it (it is also the easiest way to change the front diff, for which the assembly only need to be withdrawn a couple of inches and the caliper and wheel can be left on). The only problem is that the hub/swivel/halfshaft assembly is rather heavy.
Having seen the state of the OP's balls (as per photo reproduced below) I would suggest that the time has come for a full strip and rebuild. It will save time, cost and aggro in the longer run. I suspect that some of those fasters will be quite difficult to remove and will need to be replaced as well. Click image to enlarge |
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15th Feb 2023 12:24pm |
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| TomB8 Member Since: 17 Nov 2022 Location: West Sussex Posts: 115
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Mossberg, thank you for the information. I have been watching Mike and Trailerfitter rebuild their hubs. You are quite correct, I could remove the whole hub to replace the seal, but as you say I may as well do it all at once. The only reason for not really wanting to do it now is that I am quite busy for the next month or so, so a quick fix to keep it usable and safe would be great. Thankfully, this is not my only vehicle so I can limit it's use to muddy dog walks and not go too fast for now.
Thank you for the information on which kit to get, I hadn't realised it was so obvious. As mine seems to be a very early 300tdi I will check the seal retainers. I do intend to replace the bolts, I just hope I can get the one that has a slightly larger unthreaded section, I have read some people having trouble sourcing them, or perhaps they had just not measured accurately. It is new to me and your recommendation for tools is welcome. I will look out for some long spanners, flare nut spanners and thread chasers. I have all the other bits along with some of the specialist tools (drop arm puller, hub nut spanner, long thin socket for drive shaft nuts etc). I must also buy some crows foot sockets. I have seen a few videos on electrolysis and also people saying citric acid can work (along with bilthamber deox gel and other products). I am sure there are many options and I will need to experiment. How long did it take you to rebuild a hub? I watch the youtube videos and they seem to convey that the process is quite swift, but on most occasions what takes them 20mins takes me a few hours by the time I have the rusty bolts dealt with, scratched my head lots and visited the garage to find tools I am sure I put back in their place but now cannot be found. blackwolf, I see that it is possible to do now, but having seen Mike (britannica restorations) remove the seal I don't think it's possible without damaging it and having to put a new one in. I could be wrong. But you are correct, it's time for shiny new balls - or maybe slippery Teflon balls. |
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15th Feb 2023 5:22pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3407  
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I vouch for the rust removal using electrolysis, but do not expect it to be fast. I think I left my swivel housings for about 24hrs on 12V drawing about 5A. And I still like to go over the parts with a wirebrush.
Pictures of my swivel hub cleaning on my thread: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic72365-300.html 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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15th Feb 2023 6:45pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553
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Tom I am sorry but I can't give you any kind of indication as to how long it would take. My truck is only occasional use and it doesn't matter if its off the road for 1 day or 1 month.
My change started as tightening a wheel bearing! That went out of the window quickly when the caliper wouldn't come off. That ended up requiring me to use a grinder to cut it in half, breaking a socket extractor, drilling the rear of the bolt and buying the blow torch. When I got that far I decided I may as well do the swivel too. With the state of my swivel housings I decided to clean using electrolysis, so as well as being new to mechanicing I was new to electrolysis too. As I was cleaning the swivel housings to that extent I was painting them too, so a day between coats soon adds up. Also, ordering tools as you go along adds significantly, as does deciding to change/replace other bits and ordering them. I also had the issue of my brake calipers being fitted with different threaded bolts. The r/h side was fitted with coarse thread bolts, which is correct for its year, but the other side had been fitted with fine thread, which was for later years! When I refitted the l/h caliper, using the coarse thread bolts, it would not torque up due to the thread being damaged when the muppet fitted using fine thread previously - that required helicoils to fix, so more ordering, waiting, etc, etc. I also needed to make brake pipes, so more ordering tools and waiting for parts (I used cunifer pipe, brass fittings, needed a flaring tool, etc, etc! So I am not really the guy to ask how long it takes 🤔 . This was my first attempt at spanner work so there was lots of umming and ahhring - all takes time!!! Remember you will also need all the relevant seals, gaskets and oils. I changed my wheel bearings so had to learn this too - all basic stuff but all new to me, Mr Indecisive!!! |
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15th Feb 2023 7:38pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553
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My swivel.
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge My caliper cut in half to access the back of the bolts. Click image to enlarge |
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15th Feb 2023 7:53pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553
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Click image to enlarge Swivel housing after electrolysis. Click image to enlarge Swivel assembly on bench. Click image to enlarge |
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15th Feb 2023 8:01pm |
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| MarkBrown Member Since: 03 Oct 2022 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 449
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If the swivel is too tight the steering will be heavy and not return to centre. It probably won't shake though.
The hubs need moderate resistance so as not to shake when hitting undulations and bumps in the road. This is probably why when other new parts are fitted, such as ball joints, the resistance is less, so by fixing one problem you highlight another. My old 110 had two steering dampers, when I removed one, it shook. This was because the extra damper just masked the shaking, whilst not fixing it. You don't need to replace the seals to adjust swivel preload, but do need to remove the rod ends from the hubs. If you then rebuild the hubs with new seals etc, the preload will need to be adjusted again as the new seal will place more pressure on the swivel, making it tighter. |
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15th Feb 2023 9:35pm |
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