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NeedForTweed

Member Since: 02 Mar 2021
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 10

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

Unusual DPF fault fixed

I’ve just had an interesting DPF related saga and thought I’d share in case it helps anyone in the future.

First, the background. I bought a 2011 2.2 90 XS a couple of years ago. Pretty low mileage with some years adding fewer than 1000 miles to the total. I have since been using it as my main car and living in a rural part of Cumbria it leads a mixed life. A typical week involves a combination of 10 mile local trips as well as high speed dual carriageway and fairly regular motorway work, as well as towing a car trailer on occasions. Really a bit of everything, including low range diff lock field work too from time to time too.

Since I’d owned it I noticed the orange DPF regen light coming on after about an hour of motorway driving. Not every time, and no fault codes recorded and no problems. My local specialist assured me that this was normal. The light comes on when there’s an active regen happening and indicates all is working well. I’d estimate it happens every 400 miles or so and presumably there’s passive regen going on from time to time too.

Now the story:

Earlier this year we drove down to the Loire for a holiday. Coming home, one hour into a three hour drive back to the ferry, on a dual carriageway the orange regen light came on for a few minutes before turning red. Next was the engine light and limp mode mode then switched in. On a high speed road this causes your sphincter to twitch faster than a rabbit’s nose as you find it’s suddenly impossible to exceed 50mph on the level, and can be down to 3rd and 30mph on hills. I pulled off into a village and took an early lunch in the naive hope it would sort itself. Obviously, no joy.

Having full RAC breakdown cover meant I now had a choice, and I decided the best way to make the ferry was to plot a route using D roads as much as possible. France now has a blanket 50 mph limit on these so although stressful on the hills it wasn’t too bad. I was a little concerned about doing further damage but drove as gently as I could. Made the ferry, arrived in Portsmouth the next morning and drove into town to the nearest car park to call the RAC from there.

They were there within an hour and plugged in their computer to try to force a regen but there were a host of error codes that stopped them. Ended up on a low loader back to my independent back home in Cumbria.

They found that the DPF was comprehensively blocked, possibly a combination of having a low mileage early life, but clearly not helped by me driving such a distance in limp mode. They tried all sorts to unblock it but no joy. That cost me over £2k for a new DPF and sensors. All fine for a couple of weeks of local driving with the occasional 45 min high speed blast down the A66 to Penrith. Then a motorway trip and an hour in the orange DPF light came on followed after 5 min by the engine light and limp mode. No red lights though. Pulled off. Stopped the engine and restarted it. Limp mode now off but engine light stayed on so I drove home carefully. Back to the garage and lots of head scratching. Again, a range of fault codes relating to exhaust temp and pressure seemed to have caused the incomplete regen, but no clues as to why.

Anyhow, after a week of investigation they found a wire had come loose inside the main ECU. They fixed that and the error codes disappeared, regen happened automatically and all was well in the world.

I’m now three weeks past that date and still rebuilding confidence in the Landy. So far so good. A couple of active regens, and over 1000 miles so seemingly fixed.

Not sure if this is a fault likely to be experienced by anyone else as it’s pretty unusual, but hopefully helpful to know about. Other things I’ve learned by chatting to my local LR independent - the DPF systems on the Puma 2.2 are generally very reliable, and DPF ‘failures’ are always a result of problems elsewhere. They can be terminally blocked with significant abuse, but if you see a DPF induced engine warning light it is because something else has gone wrong.

One final note, they also upgraded the software too. That’s made a massive difference with all 2nd gear jerkiness completely removed. Much much smoother and if anyone is struggling with this then ask about having the latest upgrade.

30th Jul 2022 12:09pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

Thank you very much for sharing this. I live on an island where getting motorway miles is impossible unless you take a ferry to the nearest larger mass of land. Hence most of the time I get the acronym for DPF as the Dreaded Particulate Filter, and not just for my Defender. However, but also confirmed through some threads on this forum, is that the DPF warning lights should never come on, even while performing an active regen. There are no clues that a regen is happening. Some claim that the engine changes sound... I never noticed anything.

Interesting about the latest ecu map being better. I do sometimes feel it kangaroo a bit when not yet warmed up and load on the engine is low. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

30th Jul 2022 1:12pm

Balvaig

Member Since: 19 Feb 2016
Location: Fife
Posts: 730

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Landmark LE Corris Grey

Unfortunately your local specialist misled you. The orange and red DPF lights are warning lights indicating a problem. They do not come on during normal passive or active regeneration.
Little wonder your DPF was blocked.

An expensive mistake, which hopefully is now resolved having found a fault.

30th Jul 2022 2:02pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

As Dinnu says, the orange and red DPF lights indicate that something is wrong and shouldn't come on at all in normal operation. The orange is a warning that the DPF is approaching full and that you need to take it for a 30 minute run to clear it. If you get a red then the DPF is already clogged and needs attention. This could be a forced regen that some diagnostic tools can initiate, or it could be terminal depending on the circumstances.

If everything is working as intended, there is no overt indication that a regen is taking place although again as mentioned, I can detect a change in engine tone when it's happening. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

30th Jul 2022 2:16pm

Siwynne

Member Since: 04 Nov 2016
Location: West lancs
Posts: 578

I recently had something similar. Dpf light illuminated following an immobiliser fault and many attempted starts. Turn out the egr had failed And was not recirculating. A forced regen would not work. A new egr a dpf flush and a software update and all has been good for about 6 weeks and 1500 miles

31st Jul 2022 7:17pm

JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7906

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

Glad you got it all sorted in the end and good of you to post the issue for others to reference.

I too had 'DPF' issues and error codes that were NOT DPF issues at all. After discussions of replacing/blanking the DPF it turned out thanks to the aid of D2N a simple "Parameters Reset" via a Hawkeye sorted it all out. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic78640.html?highlight=dpf James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers

2nd Aug 2022 1:57pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17383

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

This is why I'm glad I have a 2.4 and do not intend ever to own a 2.2!

2nd Aug 2022 5:06pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20371

^^^^ +1

$W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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2nd Aug 2022 5:24pm

JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7906

Apart from above, which turned out not to be an issue (self inflicted from jump starting) we've had no issues whatsoever with the DPF and it does a lot of short journeys. It wouldn't deter me from buying another. James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers

2nd Aug 2022 5:35pm

NeedForTweed

Member Since: 02 Mar 2021
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 10

It’s been a while and I have been meaning to post an update for some time. For those who said that an orange DPF light should always be viewed as problematic then all I can say is, yep, you’re right. Those ‘active regens’ I mentioned ultimately caused limp mode issues again. I checked the error codes and it turns out the MAF sensor was the culprit. I suppose it was hiding in the background all along but the ECU fault trumped it. Anyhow, I bought a replacement for £20 and fitted it before driving down to Goodwood for the revival. I live in north Cumbria so that’s a proper (brave?) test. You can probably guess where this is going….

The journey there was actually uneventful but the next morning the engine light came on after 5 min followed by limp mode. Checking the error codes told me it was the MAF again, and buying the £20 Chinese sensor was probably not a wise choice. As you can imagine, once I’d cleared the errors the drive home was a little stressful, but passed without any more issues. I then ordered the Hitachi part (£70 if I recall) and this solved the problem. Weeks went by without any dashboard histrionics until I needed to head down to a meeting in Manchester. Just an hour down the M6, fortunately at the start of the slip road to Lancaster services, the red oil pressure light came on! Well, that couldn’t be good so I popped it in neutral and coasted straight up to the car park and turned it off. I noticed a few new rattle sounds as I used a bit of throttle to park it, then shut down and called the RAC. Nothing obvious amiss under the bonnet so I assumed (correctly) it was the oil pump. Mine is an early 2.2 and there was a ‘soft’ recall to replace the early pumps that were known to be problematic. However, it was ‘soft’ so only main dealers knew about it. Turns out my car was a fleet vehicle in its early life so serviced independently, so it was never done and obviously I knew nothing about this recall either. I had the RAC take me and it to Braithwaites near Penrith to be assessed and repaired. I was expecting the worst but it was just the pump and turbo that were damaged in the end. Still a hearty repair bill but cheaper than a new engine. (I’d thoroughly recommend Braithwaites incidentally. Great garage).

Anyhow, I won’t bore you with too much more, suffice to say that this was in Oct last year and 4000 miles later everything is still working well. I was seriously considering selling (or torching) it but, as my wife pointed out, that’s all the biggies sorted so we should keep it, at least for the winter. Let’s see what the future holds but it’s proven itself over the winter up here and is working its way back into our hearts….

Summary - don’t ignore the orange DPF light, and certainly check if you had the recall if yours is an early 2.2.

8th Feb 2023 7:02pm

macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1076

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

The DPF lights and what to to if they come on is clearly explained in the owner's handbook

8th Feb 2023 8:40pm

NeedForTweed

Member Since: 02 Mar 2021
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 10

Ha! Funny. You must have a different manual to me 😀

8th Feb 2023 11:15pm

macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1076

I always thought DPFs were introduced with MY 2012, so maybe they forgot to include such 'marginally' information in the 2011 booklet.

For reference

---
DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) (AMBER)
Illuminates when the DPF is approaching capacity. If this warning lamp illuminates, carry out the DPF regeneration procedure as soon as possible (see DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF)).

DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) (RED)
Illuminates when the DPF is full. If this warning lamp illuminates, the vehicle should be taken to your Dealer/Authorised repairer as soon as possible

DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF)
Diesel vehicles equipped with a particle filter have more efficient emission control. The particles in the exhaust gases are collected in the filter during normal driving.
When the amber warning lamp illuminates (see 27, DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) (AMBER)), the filter requires a regeneration cycle to clean itself. This requires the engine to have reached normal operating temperature. Regeneration takes place automatically at an interval of approximately 300-900 km (190-560 miles) depending on driving conditions. Regeneration normally takes 10-20 minutes and is automatically requested by the engine control module if the vehicle is driven steadily, in high range, at vehicle speeds between 40mph to 70mph. It is possible that the regeneration process will occur at lower vehicle speeds, but the events may take a little longer at a 50 km/h (30mph) average speed.

DRIVING SHORT DISTANCES OR IN COLD WEATHER
If the vehicle is frequently driven short distances or in cold weather conditions then the engine may not reach normal operating temperature. This means that regeneration of the diesel particle filter does not take place and the filter is not efficiently cleaned. When the filter reaches a condition when a filter regeneration is appropriate and the current drive style is not appropriate, an amber warning lamp illuminates on the instrument panel (see 27, DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) (AMBER)). This is not indicating a fault condition with the vehicle and no dealership support should be required. Start regeneration of the filter by driving the vehicle, in high range, preferably on a main road or motorway. The vehicle should then be driven for approximately 20 minutes or more.
When regeneration is complete the warning text is cleared automatically.
Note: A small increase in fuel consumption may be noticed temporarily during regeneration.
---

That's nothing, however, compared to a 40-page DPF manual Toyota provides

9th Feb 2023 10:47am

NeedForTweed

Member Since: 02 Mar 2021
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 10

Sorry, I didn’t think you were serious. I’m not trying to provoke you.

Yep. I have the same text, (confusingly MY 12 incudes Dec 2011 vehicles) but I’m not sure you read the full message string. The manual was no help at all.

As you have shown, the manual states that an amber DPF light ‘does not indicate a fault condition’ and no dealer intervention is required. Therefore, when my amber DPF light initially popped up all those months ago I assumed it was normal and typical of the way the tech had been integrated. It came on, then 30 seconds later went off. Fine.

In fact, contrary to what the manual says, I now know that it was telling me there was a problem. Initially it was a misbehaving MAF causing the DPF issues but that was compounded by a wire coming loose in the ECU resulting in a red DPF light as the computer refused the request to regen when in an error state.

Of course, I can’t expect an owners manual to cover every possible scenario, and the ECU fault is likely a very rare occurrence, BUT, the takeaway has to be that an orange DPF light should be seen as a problem needing investigating. The manual says the opposite.

9th Feb 2023 3:10pm

macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1076

Ah, ok, no everything's fine

I may have misunderstood some things.
Indeed an 'interesting' fault pattern and thanks again for sharing.

Model years started around September the previous calendar year. Same with ours, which was built in September 2014, but I refer to it as 2015 in order to not confuse things even more... I think... well, never mind

9th Feb 2023 4:59pm

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