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Tractorman



Member Since: 08 Jul 2016
Location: Inverclyde
Posts: 41
Scotland 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Indus Silver
Puma Engine Failure Disaster
I am making this post on behalf of a family friend who lost her husband to cancer a couple of years ago and has kept his beloved SWB Defender for occasional use. It is a 2008 with the Puma 2.4 engine and just under 50k recorded miles. She advised me that the engine "blew up" recently. Just prior to the incident she experienced uncontrolled revving whilst driving - then there was a loud bang and a loss of power coupled with copious white smoke. One possible scenario I guess is hydraulic lock with a faulty injector spewing neat fuel into one of the cylinders (I know this can occur with tractors at the dealership where I work). Has anyone experienced this? Obviously a full engine strip down is on the cards - someone has suggested to her to get a replacement engine (Land Rover apparently charge about £10k + vat for a new engine!!!). I know buying a refurbed one is an option, but I am inclined to suggest getting it rebuilt by an engine rebuild specialist. Apart from piston, valves, liner & conrod likely to be damaged, is there a risk that the cylinder head & crankshaft could also be damaged? Any thoughts and advice would be most welcome. Thanks. Jim
Post #929499 12th Nov 2021 2:57pm
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Nuclear Nick



Member Since: 21 Aug 2021
Location: Southwest
Posts: 284
United Kingdom 
I’m no LR expert but I know another possible cause is overfuelling resulting in diesel topping up the sump to the point eventually where the engine starts to run on the diluted sump oil. If this happens it will do exactly as you have described and self destruct. I’d imagine if this has happened there won’t be much salvageable and the cheapest option would be recon engine.
Post #929502 12th Nov 2021 3:17pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2031
United Kingdom 
Sounds like the same problem hank had https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic80807.html?highlight=france

Rebuilding a 2.4 seems to be problematic if you read the post. Also options for a new 2.4 or alternative engine are covered.
Post #929503 12th Nov 2021 3:32pm
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htb2



Member Since: 02 Nov 2018
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 531
Wales 
www.mdengineering.co.uk/2-4-2-2-tdci-engines/

motor and diesel above do complete or bare engines from about 3K plus vat
Post #929512 12th Nov 2021 5:18pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2301
Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Ianh wrote:
Sounds like the same problem hank had https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic80807.html?highlight=france


They are indeed identical symptoms to what happened to me a matter of weeks ago!
Driving along quite happily then all of a sudden flat out revs, plumes of smoke and “bag of spanners” sounds.

I am hoping to get my defender back this week (it has been recovered from France) so look forward to getting into diagnostics. I also suspect injectors severely overfuelling since I had recently fitted a set of new (remanufactured) injectors > 110 XS Double Cab
Post #929601 13th Nov 2021 12:07pm
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Angus_Beef



Member Since: 30 Apr 2015
Location: Oslo
Posts: 434
Norway 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
Blown turbo seal leading to runaway could be a thought? Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭
Post #929605 13th Nov 2021 12:12pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2301
Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Yeah I agree however on this occasion I was able to stop the engine by turning off the ignition, suggesting it was fuel rather than oil running the engine > 110 XS Double Cab
Post #929610 13th Nov 2021 12:37pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3422
Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
On a common rail, a stuck open injector can be catastrophic. The rail is pressurized all the time, and there would be a lot of fuel going in the cylinder during the intake and compression stroke - where normally it would only pre inject, main inject and post inject towards the end of the compression stroke.
Overfuelling could also cause other problems. Holed pistons is not unheard of.
Wonder is the injectors are the achilles heel of the 2.4? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #929612 13th Nov 2021 12:53pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3422
Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
hank wrote:
Yeah I agree however on this occasion I was able to stop the engine by turning off the ignition, suggesting it was fuel rather than oil running the engine


That would almost suggest that the problem was on only 1 cylinder. Once you cut the power to the other 3 injectors, there was simply not enough power for the engine to keep on running.

White smoke is also one of the signs of bad timing on a diesel. Injecting diesel all the time is really bad timing. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #929613 13th Nov 2021 12:59pm
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Angus_Beef



Member Since: 30 Apr 2015
Location: Oslo
Posts: 434
Norway 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
Does the 2.4 have an electric throttle body that closes on shutdown? (Sorry im only familiar with the 2.2 which does have said throttle body) Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭
Post #929619 13th Nov 2021 3:06pm
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Fifth Horseman



Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 323
United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
No throttle on the 2.4
Post #929629 13th Nov 2021 5:43pm
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Tractorman



Member Since: 08 Jul 2016
Location: Inverclyde
Posts: 41
Scotland 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Indus Silver
Many thanks for all of the replies guys - much appreciated. Jim
Post #929858 15th Nov 2021 5:00pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2031
United Kingdom 
Have you seen hanks post re his issue in the post I highlighted above. His may well be down to a vcv or over fuelling injector causing hydraulic lock as you highlighted tractorman . So all may not be lost, the engine may not be blown.
Post #930275 18th Nov 2021 8:06pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2301
Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Indeed - see here Tractorman https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic80807-50.html > 110 XS Double Cab
Post #930278 18th Nov 2021 8:13pm
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Procta



Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 5183
United Kingdom 
Dinnu wrote:
On a common rail, a stuck open injector can be catastrophic. The rail is pressurized all the time, and there would be a lot of fuel going in the cylinder during the intake and compression stroke - where normally it would only pre inject, main inject and post inject towards the end of the compression stroke.
Overfuelling could also cause other problems. Holed pistons is not unheard of.
Wonder is the injectors are the achilles heel of the 2.4?


I think that happened to my mates dads jag, Sucked all the compression out of the engine, which ended up killing the engine. The car ended up been a tin of beans. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!
Post #930306 19th Nov 2021 5:44am
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