 | Home > Off Topic > Bigger Defender (on RR platform) |
 
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510  
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As opposed to the Grenadier, which was obsolete before it was conceived?
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14th Sep 2021 11:10am |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
Sorry Supacat you are incorrect on this one, Defender was always planned to be the last product off D7U, to be a 'sister' product with Disco 5 in Nitra. RR is and was always the first product off the flexi MLA. 2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW |
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14th Sep 2021 11:20am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5813  
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Philip,
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If that’s the case, why is the Toyota Land Cruiser 70 model range so sort after? https://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-70 They’re as rare as rocking horse you-know-what here in the Alps and people fall over themselves to buy them. And they’re still going strong in Oz, Africa, South America etc. That will be Grenadier’s main competitor and one could argue, only competitor. So why can’t Grenadier do it just as well but offer the consumer a different choice, much as the Defender did before being turned into a blank canvas to be used by footballers, drug dealers, and urbanites but rarely ever by someone who used the previous model in anger. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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14th Sep 2021 11:24am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Global supply issues are why cars are in demand at the moment (hence people making five figures on year-old Defenders). That or there are a lot more wannabe macho men than we thought.
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14th Sep 2021 11:27am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5813
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Philip give it a break.
You clearly have some serious masculinity issues. Are you afraid of blokey blokes who graft for a living? I suspect you’re actually Philippa. In the alps they’re used extensively by farmers, roofers, builders, carpenters, etc. Because they need to. For their job, not their image or ego. And I suspect as much for most buyers across the globe. But you know that, you just can’t accept it. Of course the brand obsessed men buying blacked out, lowered Defenders with 20” wheels are far more balanced and don’t have any self image problems whatsoever, they’re much more grounded than a farmer.  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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14th Sep 2021 11:34am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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I’d wager I’ve used Defenders for “work” far more than most - just because it has a a job to do, that doesn’t mean that it needs to be rubbish at everything else. Why be a masochist?
A 70 Series is a crude and compromised antique that must fit the actual requirements and needs of a minuscule number of buyers - but, like the old Defender, it’s been around for so long it’s just part of the scenery in some places. But it will still die, and will be replaced by something more comfortable, more capable, more refined. |
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14th Sep 2021 11:41am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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At some point yes that did happen. Meanwhile, JLR had been telling the world that MLA would be introduced to new models from MY20:  Click image to enlarge D7 was obsolete by JLR's own design / product planning ~ it's not meant as a derogatory comment, just a statement that follows JLR's plan. Last edited by Supacat on 14th Sep 2021 11:54am. Edited 1 time in total |
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14th Sep 2021 11:49am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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The L460 should have been launched by now, but for the obvious reasons over the last 18 months.
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14th Sep 2021 11:51am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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And let's not forget that the MLA platform was meant to debut in the redesigned Jaguar XJ ~ but was canned as it wasn't cutting edge enough.
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14th Sep 2021 12:10pm |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
Supacat - I think you're getting mixed up with what is said in investor briefings - which suits a certain audience who like a positive spin, and the actual reality which is often more complex. You'll notice on that chart that Defender isn't even mentioned as D7u, because it changed a lot, and became known as D7X, so the chart is correct, just has a few bits missing.
Defender was never ever planned on MLA, fact. It wouldn't have been able to make the investment returns that a new platform dictates. If you look back further you'll see that it was already well under development before MLA was even conceived, and would have been launched well before 20MY had there not been the usual delays with factory location etc. So the 20MY point is a red fish.  2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW |
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14th Sep 2021 12:13pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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What, you think I haven't tried? I'd be the first (but not the only) to say I don't know too much about the car industry. However, as a Land Rover fan for sooooooo long, I have been disappointed at its direction of the past decade. I think the Evoque is the only thing JLR have got right. Everything else (again, just my opinion) has been woefully wrong. The dropping of the Freelander, and the failure to simply upgrade the Defender is just beyond words, for me. I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong when I said that JLR would have gone bust by now. I predicted this for 2020. So they have one up on me that they haven't flown to the wind 
Will JLR be able to weather the coming changes that they are imposing upon themselves?... this continual shift 'up market' without reliability matching... this admitted failure to take on Audi and BMW, and yet talk about taking on Bentley  the inevitable price rises coming, despite a possible inflation-led recession. Even the chip shortage could see some manufacturers in a far better position than JLR look to the administrators.
Sorry to continually repeat, but this idea of dropping the baby Defender will, I'm sure, bite them. We've seen how much people like small SUVs. I can't see that changing for some years. As the above post says, I well remember Land Rover being this car company blessed with some great products: a rough'n'ready 4x4, and two smooth 4x4s. The Freelander was a great idea... then... where we are now. I'm sure Ralf would think I am a  . But then I think he's a . He oversaw too many errors. It hasn't result in the death of JLR (and I was wrong), but neither is it a rip-roaring success. Now left. |
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14th Sep 2021 12:16pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Not sure why you'd write to him?
Ralph's been kicked upstairs, hopefully where he can't make any more decisions more important than what biscuits to serve with the coffee at board meetings. |
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14th Sep 2021 12:23pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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The current round of press briefings, the start of this thread, is all about Defender, or a version of it going onto MLA but you're saying this has never been in any plan. |
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14th Sep 2021 12:27pm |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
Next generation Defender 26/27? may well move to MLA, quite likely, as there's nothing else suitable. You were saying that current Def was planned or should have been the first product on MLA and subsequently moved to D7x, that the bit I'm correcting. 2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW |
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14th Sep 2021 3:43pm |
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