 | Home > Off Topic > Bigger Defender (on RR platform) |
 
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952  
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https://www.carscoops.com/2021/09/land-rov...-defender/
Oh, and the 'baby' Defender has been scrapped. Just..oh dear. For the life of me, I cannot grasp what is going on at JLR. Now left. |
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13th Sep 2021 6:28pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149 
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The plot was lost long ago... 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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13th Sep 2021 7:21pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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The Discovery I was a Range Rover underneath, 90/110 very similar…
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13th Sep 2021 7:29pm |
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| pjm-84 Member Since: 12 Apr 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 661
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.....and its now been scrapped.
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13th Sep 2021 7:33pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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The 100 RR chassis formed the basis of the Disco 1, but it didn't drag customers away as far as I remember (I bought a RR Vogue at the time). JLR has been competing with itself for some years now, and dropping the Freelander when the world of cars all switched to making SUVs was insane. They should have downsized (or rather kept the original size!) the Freelander to the Mokka, Yeti class. They made a huge mistake.
But all that aside I cannot understand why JLR is dropping the baby Defender. Now left. |
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13th Sep 2021 7:40pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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No, it hasn't. To comply with EU rules, they had to produce the Jimny in commercial (van) form. As far as I'm aware, they've sold all their imports...and used Jimny's going for used Wrangler money! Oh, and a LWB Jimny is being tested in Japan, and... https://electricvehicleweb.com/suzuki-jimny-electric-next-gen-ev/ Hybrid electric Jimny on the way. They won't be able to meet the demand. I'd like someone from JLR to tell me that if this hybrid had a Defender badge on it, it wouldn't be selling like hot cakes. Now left. |
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13th Sep 2021 7:43pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Every manufacturer with a range of models competes with itself, there’s niche upon niche nowadays (look at the innumerable variety of SUVs BMW and Mercedes make). Not sure a Jimny-style Defender would go down well on here anyway - a Jimny isn’t really much use for anything, appealing as they are as a toy.
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13th Sep 2021 7:49pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Philip, I don't see that at all. BMW (who make ugly cars) at least have their demarcation lines in the X series. But the Defender is more expensive than the Range Rover!!! The Evoque is what, the same size as the Discovery? The Velar is what - just what? Throw in the Disco Sport, Range Rover Sport, and now a larger Defender on a Range Rover platform. Where are the dividing lines, cause there aren't many in price? And then we start to throw in the Jaguars as well
 Are you seriously suggesting other manufacturers compete with themselves like JLR does? Now left. |
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13th Sep 2021 8:03pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Absolutely, there’s clearly huge crossover between, say, an X5, an X6 and an X7 with the same drivetrain. GLE, GLE Coupe, GLS, the same. Difference is LR doesn’t make hatchbacks, saloons etc - but, then, soon nor will anyone else…
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13th Sep 2021 8:09pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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No, that's incorrect.
The BMWs listed in price, go by model: X1 £30,000 X2 £31,000 X3 £43,000 X4 £49,000 X5 £61,000 X6 £62,000 Whereas the models and prices of the JLR cars are all over the place: LR Defender £44,000 LR Range Rover Evoque £32,000 LR Discovery Sport £32,000 LR Discovery £53,000 LR Velar £46,000 LR Range Rover Sport £65,000 LR Range Rover £86,000 Jaguar E Pace £38,000 Jaguar F Pace £41,000 You have a Defender (much) more expensive than an Evoque...which is the same price as the Discovery Sport; you have the Jaguar EPace and FPace the same price as each other(!), but both less than a Discovery...but more than a Discovery Sport; you have the Velar and the FPace within just a few extras difference in price; and now you're going to have a larger Defender (built on the Range Rover platform) at the same price as the Range Rover Sport. Only the Range Rover is the outlier at £86,000...but you can have SO vehicles built to that price. Indeed, you can have a Defender at that price. What JLR needs to do is to have a baby Defender at sub £30,000 - and sell off Jaguar. I say again, a larger Defender is going to pull buyers away from its own line-up. They are already going to be JLR customers. If it was just me saying this then I'd be willing to offer that it's just one of my opinions, but if you read the forums, others are saying exactly the same. JLR are making yet another mistake. Yes, there will be a market for a larger Defender, but many of those sales will come from people not buying other JLR cars. This is why a baby Defender would work. Jeep is planning a baby Wrangler...and it's electric, too. It seems JLR haven't learnt anything from the drop in Discovery sales. They need to have clear demarcation lines in their models and prices. Now left. |
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14th Sep 2021 8:00am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Sounds like JLR are missing a trick here - drop Ralf a line, I imagine he’ll pay handsomely to resolve all his product planning woes:
ralf.speth@jaguarlandrover.com |
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14th Sep 2021 8:57am |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
@ Whatpuddle
I see it a little differently, and it largely depends how you view the brand, is LR the overall or master brand with 3 sub-brands or are all product LRs? BMW have always had a very linear brand, in both saloons and more recently in 'SUVs'. 1,3,5,7 etc bigger number equals bigger more expensive product - simple Land Rover at its best has provided differentiated products with different characters and positioning e.g. a Freelander was not a small Discovery it had its own positioning and character. If you buy into the 3 sub-brand logic then the pricing looks more sensible if you put them in order, partic. for Range Rover: Range Rover Evoque £32,000 Range Rover Velar £46,000 Range Rover Sport £65,000 Range Rover £86,000 Discovery is sort of Ok but lacks a smaller model Discovery Sport £32,000 Discovery £53,000 (but its really a 7-set RRS, same underneath) Defender doesn't work as a sub-brand with only one model, unless you cheat by calling 90/110/130 different - but they are only body variants, like an estate or cabrio 3 series.
If you don't buy into the whole sub-brand concept then they are all LR's and too many a have overlapping prices - but you will also get to a more extreme level with BMW/Audi etc when you look at the price bandwidth. What is needed in my view, in addition to lower priced models, is great differentiation between Def and Disco and Disco and RR, not just in looks but also features, character etc, but that's increasingly difficult in a modern world of shared components. If it was easy........ we'd all being doing this for a living! Sorry for long post  2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW |
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14th Sep 2021 10:11am |
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| AMBxx Member Since: 24 Jul 2016 Location: York Posts: 1031 
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I think BMW have got themselves into the same problem.
X1, X2 & X3 are interchangeable. My wife's X1 is great, but the newer version looks more like the X3 than the previous X1. I like the X2, but it looks smaller than an X1 (might just be the design). Same with the other ranges - just not enough difference between each model. VAG did the same when they merged all their brand platforms. We ended up with VW, Audi, Skoda and Seat with the same platform and a really dull range. Problem for the whole car industry I think. |
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14th Sep 2021 10:56am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5810  
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Orchard, you are right.
The early 80s incarnation of LR’s three model brand was perfect. Defender was a rough and ready, go anywhere, do anything, uncomfortable agricultural vehicle. It usually stayed wild and dirty. Range Rover was a luxury, go anywhere, do anything, road biased vehicle. It usually stayed clean and well presented. Disco 1 offered a bit of both, allowing the owner to indulge in off road fun, whilst having a comfortable vehicle with good road manners most of the time. It was sometimes muddy, sometimes clean enough for the school run (and latterly with the 3/4 and higher spec interiors, the Opera). In effect what the new Def does now. That was a perfect model range for a specialist 4x4/SUV maker But where they are going now, I have no idea? Not to mention nonsense ideas of including ‘already weathered’ woods and materials harking back to the old days. All that does is amplify that your model range goes nowhere near the outdoors, despite your brand claiming it’s all ‘about the outdoors’. One Life, Live It……as long as it’s in London and near a car wash. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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14th Sep 2021 11:03am |
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