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nosnibod

Member Since: 15 Aug 2007
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 370

1998 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Bronze Green

Now take into account the entire ethos of running a similarly capable vehicle (i.e. compare apples with apples) and replacing it every three years or running it on a lease. Do the sums over a 20 year period taking into account all running costs and see how it looks then. I have when I looked leasing a company car.

It not a case of rose tinted specs but cold hard money.

If you compare running something like a Defender against a super-mini then things are rather different of course, but that isn't a fair comparison. More like trading capability against cost...

And my 173,000 mile old 110 doesn't creak or groan and can happily keep up with modern traffic. Dave
Green Goddess - 1998 Defender 110 300tdi

29th Sep 2011 5:29am

leeds

Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

Comparing like with like?

Ok German designed and built G Wagons against the Land Rover range.

Take the Canning Stock Route. take 7 G Wagons, with 2 M B technicians on board. Six out of Seven, yes 6 out of 7 broken down within about 400 miles!

This route is routinely done by Land Rovers and was done the week before by 3 Land Rovers

There again how much do G Wagons cost in comparison to Defenders?

Brendan

29th Sep 2011 6:16am

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3150

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

leeds wrote:
Comparing like with like?

Ok German designed and built G Wagons against the Land Rover range.

Take the Canning Stock Route. take 7 G Wagons, with 2 M B technicians on board. Six out of Seven, yes 6 out of 7 broken down within about 400 miles!

This route is routinely done by Land Rovers and was done the week before by 3 Land Rovers

There again how much do G Wagons cost in comparison to Defenders?

Brendan

There is/was a G wagen (pre-registered) for sale in Oxford for £80K+. So, you could have what, three 90s for that price? 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

29th Sep 2011 6:22am

Bobble

Member Since: 21 Aug 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 223

nosnibod wrote:
If you compare running something like a Defender against a super-mini then things are rather different of course, but that isn't a fair comparison.

Yes it is, because that's where I am right now.
Much though I love it, is the Defender really, really, really worth the additional costs just for a few weekends green laning, the ability to drive during the few days of really heavy snow we get each year now, and so I can look a bit non-conformist in the car park?
Be honest, that's where most are positioned in terms of the role they really fill.
So now there'll be a list of drivers saying "I tow with mine every day" or "I took mine across Namibia" or "I shifted ten tonnes of builders rubble".
Terrific.
I don't need to do any of those things, hence it's getting increasingly pointless.
Is now a good time to mention the LEZ by the way?
Look, I'm not saying they're no good because they are, I'm just struggling lately to say one is right for me.

29th Sep 2011 8:19am

JSG

Member Since: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2412

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

Bobble wrote:
Well I guess questioning the wisdom of running a Defender, on a Land Rover forum was always gonna be interesting.
Mine is well maintained and not some abused rust bucket, and it failed the MOT on non-serviced items, so to me, that argument is void. It's just old and tired but the maintenance is hindered by shockingly bad build quality, like the tails of two adjacent bolts touching one another so as to trap the nuts on the threads, so to remove one nut and bolt, you have to remove the others at the same time.
And as economical to run as any other car? Please, get the rose tinted specs off. The latest batch of offerings from zee Germans offer upwards of 60mpg cruising at 80mph, against something that struggles to break 30mpg in reaching 60? Do come along.
Like I said, I don't hate the Defender, but it's become something of a whimsical folly.
And they all rattle, creak and stink of fuel in the end. All of them. Just accept it.

The only valid point I see there is the fuel economy - the latest batch of German offerings may be more efficient fuel wise but they are very boring to drive. A couple of years back I ran a Golf GTDi alongside my 300 tdi 90. The Golf was fast and neve did less than 45mpg when hooning - but it was boring.

What shows through your posts is that you have lost 'the Defender thing' and prob will move on to something more suitable for you - hopefully you won't regret it. John

http://www.hampshire4x4response.co.uk

2011 Tdci 110 CSW XS

29th Sep 2011 8:56am

daviec1

Member Since: 30 Nov 2010
Location: Ayrshire
Posts: 246

Bobble - I understand your comments, but let me quote from personal experience.

About 4 years ago, things were going well, so I decided to treat myself to my first ever brand new car. So I went for something with a bit of presence - a Chrysler 300C saloon.

And it went great, until around December 2 years ago. When the snow & ice arrived. In spades.

Automatic, rear wheel drive, almost 2 tons in snow & ice.

So last November, having decided to not go through that again, got my current Defender. 2 weeks before the snow & ice settled in for more or less 5 months of fun & games.

Defender did not miss a beat during that whole time. Even when X5s, Volvos, and other softroaders were getting stuck all over the place.

So, finally got rid of the Chrysler for a wee Audi A4 soft top for the highdays & holidays, but the Defender is my daily drive.

So, of course there are a whole list of arguments against the Defender, but having owned everything from Datsun (yes Datsun) Patrols, RR, Ford Explorers etc in my extended family, the Defender is the ONLY car that I have 100% confidence it will get me home. 2001 TD5 110 DCPU in Bonatti Grey

29th Sep 2011 9:21am

Bobble

Member Since: 21 Aug 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 223

Thing is I geniunely haven't lost the Defender thing, but in the next few months mine will HAVE to become a weekend car. It's just not built for comfortable, affordable, reliable daily transport, boring though that may be to admit, and that's what I need more of now over legendary capability and an iconic image.
So do I keep the Defender for recreation only? I'd love to, but I have to ask myself if I can really justify that. How many weekends hire of a Defender could be bought for the cost of taxing, insuring and maintaining my own for it to sit idle 5/7th of the time?
I'm at L2B if anyone wants to come and beat me with a blunt object by the way.

29th Sep 2011 9:21am

JSG

Member Since: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2412

We'll try and get you to see the error of your ways at L2B

John

http://www.hampshire4x4response.co.uk

2011 Tdci 110 CSW XS

29th Sep 2011 9:26am

Knot Yet

Member Since: 01 Mar 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 197

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

I have mine because I can!!

Its expensive to run, I use it daily for over 120 miles of motorway travel to London and back and I need to tow a small garage along behind

But I love the driving position, I love the way it sounds, I love the other looks it gets ( or possibly my bad driving!!) and I thoroughly enjoy owning it.

However I can afford the luxury of a versatile agricultural work horse (crazy but true)!

If pennies were an issue I wouldn't have one, if I cared about clocking up the mileage I wouldn't have one, if I wanted to get from A to B in greater comfort I wouldn't have one, if parking was paramount I wouldn't have one and if speed was a given I wouldn't have one.

There are always a hundred and one reasons why you shouldn't - but sometimes its fun to do the opposite of common sense

And at the end of the day who cares, if you want one and can afford one buy one, if you can't, don't, as you will never truly enjoy it Defender 110 Puma Utility XS

29th Sep 2011 9:33am

twopoint6khz

Member Since: 18 Aug 2011
Location: North Lakes
Posts: 654

How about we revisit this discussion in 3 months' time when the country has ground to a halt again because of snow?

29th Sep 2011 9:35am

MrFlips

Member Since: 27 May 2009
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 682

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 PU Santorini Black

Bobble wrote:
I have to ask myself if I can really justify ... the cost of taxing, insuring and maintaining my own for it to sit idle 5/7th of the time?

Sell it and buy a Series 2 - no tax, classic car insurance and easier to maintain. Much easier to justify.

Peter
2008 SWB Truck Cab
1952 80" Soft top

29th Sep 2011 9:36am

Bobble

Member Since: 21 Aug 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 223

MrFlips wrote:
Bobble wrote:
I have to ask myself if I can really justify ... the cost of taxing, insuring and maintaining my own for it to sit idle 5/7th of the time?

Sell it and buy a Series 2 - no tax, classic car insurance and easier to maintain. Much easier to justify.

How d'you do that? Yer know, that mind-reading thing you did there.

29th Sep 2011 9:42am

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

ken wrote:
cinstone wrote:
Almost right. It's a Mk II and is sub' 12ft.lb. It's far more accurate than me, although I faired o.k today with a 51/60 after only the second time out at HFT since June. Not good enough though. 59's at least to compete consistently.

You can read all about my time with this rifle here;- http://www.airgun-tec.co.uk/airgun-tec/index.php?topic=65.0

Chris.

Chris have you had any reports on the Hawke Sidewinder IR Tac 30 - 8.5-25x42 scope thing of it for my S410 FAC

Ken, I'm going to replace the Hawke Endurance 30 IR 3-12x50 on my S410 with Leupold optics soon. The endurance any good to you?

29th Sep 2011 10:30am

BigRuss

Member Since: 15 May 2010
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2785

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Just filled up the defender with 63 litres of fuel for £56

Russell
2011MY 110 XS USW Black

29th Sep 2011 6:07pm

bpman

Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

BigRuss wrote:
Just filled up the defender with 63 litres of fuel for £56

How ? you bought a syphon and made a donation ... you found the hidden BP diesel pump

29th Sep 2011 6:21pm

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