 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Loss of power and black smoke |
 
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| KMBXXX Member Since: 25 Aug 2020 Location: Surrey Posts: 8   
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I posted on the Forum about a year ago when my Defender (2.4 Puma) was struggling to pass it’s MOT because of emissions. It passed (just) in the end but in the last couple of months it has gone bad on me. Can anyone help?
Symptoms When I change up a gear, especially in the low gears, there is a puff of black smoke. When I am driving under load (usually going uphill on a main road or motorway) I regularly get a power failure. I change down a gear, there is a puff (cloud?) of black smoke and the fault clears. When the power failure starts there is a rapid increase in the water temperature gauge reading that falls equally rapidly when the fault clears. There are no engine management faults showing. The following parts have been replaced in the last 15,000 miles. Turbo, EGR, injectors, fuel pump solenoid and fuel rail valve. I paid for this work to be done so I assume ……... Last week it was pressure tested and the intercooler and hoses did not leak. It has done 97k miles. Any idea what it could be? |
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20th Aug 2021 2:43pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8021  
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Std map? Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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20th Aug 2021 10:55pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1997
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Potentially vcv, but could be head gasket.
Worth a read and conclusion at end https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic75278...ead+gasket |
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21st Aug 2021 12:03am |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1997
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I would have expected the maf or map to have triggered a Diagnostic Trouble Code and the OP said none were showing.
A vcv issue won’t trigger a DTC but will produce issues with fueling, however that sudden rise in temp in high gear on a motorway incline, I.e under load, and then the temp drop when load off and in 5th has all the signs experienced by Greyman110 in the link I provided. Not something I expect you wanted to hear but does sound very similar to the issues Greyman110 experienced due to a head gasket fault. A check could be to see if the coolant system is pressurised beyond what is normal, i.e cap releasing pressure, hoses staying hard as per greyman110’s posts in the link. |
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21st Aug 2021 9:27am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8021
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is it an actual increase in engine temp with the gauge going up or the gauge going up to show a fault as its used as an indicator for that too.- would be interesting to know. for the latter the gauge shoots straight to the top. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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21st Aug 2021 1:15pm |
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| KMBXXX Member Since: 25 Aug 2020 Location: Surrey Posts: 8
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Some good responses here. Taking them in order:
JST. It is std map. The temperature gauge is not showing actual water temperature. The rate at which it rises (and especially falls) proves that it isn't the actual temperature of the water. The fan often comes on when the engine is idling and the vehicle is stationary. I thought this was because there was no air flow across the radiator. Have I misunderstood this? Ianh. Is the vcv what I referred to as the fuel rail valve? If so then when they coded in the injectors they had trouble because of it and told me that they changed it. Could they have used a 'spare' to do the coding and then put the old one back? Let's hope it isn't a head gasket problem. I will read the the greyman post this evening with a glass(es) of wine to soften any bad news. Dinnu. The air cleaner is in good condition. Having thought more about it, I am hoping it is either the MAF/MAP sensor. It used to occasionally throw up a fault when I accelerated at high speed (well 50 - 60mph) but that fault disappeared when I had the turbo changed. If either of these sensors are sending gibberish to the ecu under certain conditions then the ecu will not necessarily think it is faulty but just respond to the gibberish message. Why should it register a fault if the sensors are talking to it? Is this possible? The exhaust pipe is pretty sooty and the catalytic convertor needs checking because it must have been abused with the filth passing through it. My view is that this a result of the problem and not the cause. Tell me if you think I am wrong. Thanks for all your help so far. Any further thoughts are welcome and I will keep you guys posted on what happens. |
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21st Aug 2021 2:37pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1997
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This is the VCV https://bellautoservices.co.uk/store/defen...our-valve/
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21st Aug 2021 6:42pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20340
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Change the MAF and VCV, the latter doesn’t need programming in.
These two have a big effect on fuelling, and the MAP a lesser degree (boost) but still valid. Ideally change all three as at that milage it is needed, mine has all three of these items replaced. Ford parts MAF, PFJones VCV and Bosch MAP and you won’t go wrong and for a good price. Hopefully it’s nothing more touch wood, but even at worst case scenario these parts aren’t ridiculously expensive and need replacing anyway. There are details regarding part numbers on here that I have put up in the past. The biggest problems I ever experienced in mines behaviour was clutch switch problems and VCV going under. Black smoke is typically over fuelling as a rule, head gasket might be an issue worst case but that’s beyond my scope of knowledge and don’t mind admitting it. With VCV issues you often get a poor idle as well, but mainly only noticeable in deep winter cold weather and poor performance when really cold say under 4.C and freezing. Hope that helps, LR parts for these items simply has a ridiculous mark up. The items are of equal quality, the LR MAP for example is a Bosch part anyway… The 2.4 motor is a Ford Motor parts engine. Good luck. 👍🏻 $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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21st Aug 2021 8:01pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20340
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Millers fuel additive will help your cause too to use permanently if you don’t already.
I’m really happy with it, and many diesel techs recommend it for internal engine cleanliness long term. Should help bring emissions down a bit too in the process $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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21st Aug 2021 8:25pm |
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| 110CSW Member Since: 27 Jul 2023 Location: Reading Posts: 1 
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Hello - same issues with mine - did you get a solution?
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27th Jul 2023 8:02pm |
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