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Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2031

Dinnu wrote:
Perhaps instinct caused your wife (or daughter, who ever was driving), to hit the brakes.. causing more damage to the front, but if the front wheels locked, then there would be no damage whatsoever to the gearbox. If the engine was still running, then I think the gearbox did not transmit any torque through the torque converter, and should be fine.

It’s a DSG auto, so no torque converter. It will use dual multiplate clutch’s but they “run wet” via pumped transmission fluid.

As you say if the brakes were full on that would have locked the wheels and avoided momentum being applied to the transmission. That should be identifiable by looking at the tyres or the road if it’s not gravel.

However in the surprise of someone ramming you and pushing you back that may not have happened, especially in the first few seconds etc. In which case the engine would have been driving the clutch plates one way and the wheels the other. All fluids and other transmission components would also be under stress from what is not a situation they would have been designed for. At best significant wear of those clutch plates would have happened if the brakes were not immediately applied before impact.

1st Jun 2021 12:01pm

Huttopia

Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1972

Thanks for that. The tyres have no flat spots, I don't think my wife applied the brakes - if she had I doubt the car would have stayed in a straightline whilst being pushed so far backwards by a tow bar / ball which impacted slightly off centre. She was battling to not be pushed sideways / off the road.

I spoke to VW this morning and they said, hard to tell, I'd drain the box and see if there is debris.....

Let's see what A plan have to say - I've had to email them as the call centre is seemingly v busy.

1st Jun 2021 12:40pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17444

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Ianh wrote:
... At best significant wear of those clutch plates would have happened if the brakes were not immediately applied before impact.

I'd be very surprised indeed if "significant" wear occurred in a 50m pushback; in fact I'd be surprised if it did any damage to the transmission at all.

Nasty experience though, it is disturbing that we allow people like that to share our roads society.

1st Jun 2021 4:57pm

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2237

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green

If it was in gear and pushed backwards then there is no way that the engine would still be running unless the clutch was 'depressed', the wheels locked or the box in reverse.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread

1st Jun 2021 5:17pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17444

^^^ OP says it's an auto and was in "D".

1st Jun 2021 6:07pm

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2237

yes in 'D' but it is a DSG gearbox so closer to a manual than an auto. No slipping torque converter.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread

1st Jun 2021 6:22pm

nicam

Member Since: 14 Dec 2007
Location: deepest Lancashire
Posts: 157

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green

Bluest wrote:
so I’ve always been convinced the impact damaged the diff as it was in gear at the time so the impact will have gone through the drivetrain.

There would be no way to prove this retrospectively, and it couldn’t be checked at the time without significant labour expense.

Quite correct - no way to check - even if you have a Ferrari Formula 1 pit crew available to strip, check and rebuild everything - just ask Charles Leclerc. It can still break. Don`t drive faster than your angel can fly!

2nd Jun 2021 11:58am

Matt110

Member Since: 29 Jun 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 685

blackwolf wrote:
Ianh wrote:
... At best significant wear of those clutch plates would have happened if the brakes were not immediately applied before impact.

I'd be very surprised indeed if "significant" wear occurred in a 50m pushback; in fact I'd be surprised if it did any damage to the transmission at all.

Nasty experience though, it is disturbing that we allow people like that to share our roads society.

Agree with this... confused as to how it could generate any damage whatsoever. The engine was running at the end of the event, thus the clutches weren't engaged. The transmission is capable of being driven backwards, that's just overrun braking, which a DSG clutched based system is engineered for, and it's capable of doing that for many many thousands of miles over it's lifetime, slowing the vehicle by transmission rather than braking. But in this case, it wasn't even in any stress as with the vehicle stationary, the clutches aren't engaged. It's just rotating freely moving gear sets backwards, with an open DSG clutch system idling and clear.

Put another way - a comparable situation would be that you've simply generated a condition whereby you've rolled to a stop on a hill, and allowed the vehicle to roll backwards down the hill by 50m. Can't see anything wrong with that other than a bit of clutch wear, but they're designed to cope with generating creep torque similar to a torque converter anyway, so should be fine.

By definition the gears transfer torque in both directions - but weren't needing to in this scenario. Whether the transmission is in drive or reverse - can't see the effect. You could also put the vehicle in reverse, reverse up your steep drive, and then allow the vehicle to coast back down to the ground again without applying the throttle. No damage would occur, even if you suddenly applied throttle halfway through that roll... sure the clutches would be engaged and would wear a tiny amount as per a heavy hill type pull away. But I don't think that it could be damaged.

Horrific experience, and really feel for the OP and family, really hope you get some closure on it and that the car is OK - not that the car in this instance is the most important thing but ironically seeing it repaired and fixed often allows people to move on. I had the same with a major accident my wife had a few years ago. All the best.

2nd Jun 2021 12:28pm

Huttopia

Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1972

Thanks chaps. I had a call from the body repair place today to say the insurance company is writing it off. I’m waiting to hear the details. It was £11,750 when I bought it from VW in Oct 20... so no doubt it is worth £2.50 now. We will see.

I’d like to replace it with something my daughter can learn in and then have as a first car when she is 17 in spring.

9th Jun 2021 8:58pm

Procta

Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 5183

How old its it? for a 11k car to be written off, that is just silly! Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!

9th Jun 2021 9:10pm

Huttopia

Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1972

Hey Procta, it is a 64 plate and had 50k miles on when I bought it. A well equipped 1.4TSI GT (150). I’m surprised too!

9th Jun 2021 9:33pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2031

Huttopia wrote:
Thanks chaps. I had a call from the body repair place today to say the insurance company is writing it off. I’m waiting to hear the details. It was £11,750 when I bought it from VW in Oct 20... so no doubt it is worth £2.50 now. We will see.

I’d like to replace it with something my daughter can learn in and then have as a first car when she is 17 in spring.

Worth noting to never take the insurance companies first offer before checking real prices in the market as they generally offer a low “book” value.. Look online for same vehicle , same spec, same mileage, history etc from a dealer. Screen grab details and book mark a few that are the same as yours before the incident . This will give you a good idea of value and really help negotiate the value of the insurance payout if they offer below the value you think the vehicle should be valued at.

9th Jun 2021 9:34pm

Huttopia

Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1972

Thanks. I shared the purchase price with the insurance company when I emailed the claim details so they know the starting point. I could do without the admin burden but the girls are fine and it’s only metal.

9th Jun 2021 9:39pm

DAZ110

Member Since: 06 Dec 2007
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 2040

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Barolo Black

I managed to smash my wife’s 1.6 Golf GT back in February 2020.

It was written off.

If remember correctly I think I got £11500 from the insurance at the time.

Click image to enlarge

10th Jun 2021 6:47am

Procta

Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 5183

Huttopia wrote:
Hey Procta, it is a 64 plate and had 50k miles on when I bought it. A well equipped 1.4TSI GT (150). I’m surprised too!

Christ its only 5 and half to 6 years old, and they are writing it off! Ok if it had another 2 years on it, id have said fair play. Sure to christ the damage done, would under the 3k market, and that's going by the a coach works repair. The car will be worth about 7 to 8k, if you sold it on!
Are insurances not interested in repairing cars anymore like?

Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!

10th Jun 2021 7:15pm

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