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DSL

Member Since: 20 Aug 2007
Location: Wandering the wasteland.
Posts: 837

I still like the idea of a 90HT with a few boxes ticked, even though I’d struggle to fit my Oztent in it. If I bought one I’d be aiming to keep it as a long term camping/RT/mild expedition car so would plan to keep it as long as it’s still going. I’ve killed a few LRs, would be interesting to see if I could add to that list.

Re the commercial, anyone actually got one and had a look to see how easy/difficult it would be to take the load barrier and window blanks out?

13th Mar 2021 8:37am

Co1

Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3682

camelman wrote:
Co1 wrote:
That makes no sense J77. I’m no expert but if you pay the VAT the next buyer doesn’t have to so the fact that they can’t claim it back has no relevance as they won’t have paid it in the first place. If anything I would say it makes it more desirable as it makes better financial sense to private owners AND business users.

I see the logic as one of the reasons the HT will sell is that businesses can claim the vat back. A business buyer would have little interest in a 2nd hand ht if they couldn't reclaim the vat on the purchase.

This is my point though. They won’t pay any VAT on the purchase of a second hand HT as it was paid by the previous owner, so the amount they could claim back would be zero because the amount of VAT they paid was zero. Am I missing something?

13th Mar 2021 9:04am

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3373

Not quite.
If a business buys a new 90 HT for £48k (£40k + VAT), the first thing they do is reclaim the £8k VAT from the VAT man.
The vehicle has only cost them £40k.

When they sell the vehicle in 3 years time for £30k, (£25+VAT), they then pay the VAT man £5k VAT from the sale.

If another business buys the vehicle from them, the new buyer can then reclaim this £5k VAT and the cycle goes on.

IF 2 identical vehicles are sat on the forecourt for £30k, one which is VAT registered and one which isn't, it won't make any difference to a private buyer, but the business buyer would take the VAT registered one as they can claim the VAT back and it only costs them £25k.

Therefore if a private buyer buys a commercial vehicle new, it will inherently be worth less than a VAT registered vehicle when they come to sell it.

Last edited by camelman on 13th Mar 2021 9:23am. Edited 5 times in total

13th Mar 2021 9:13am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Can't quite decide if this is sign written or photoshopped, not that makes a great deal of difference to the underlying vehicle.

Click image to enlarge

Ken Mc Conomy (@McCons) Tweeted:
My brother seen this beauty @LandRover_UK https://t.co/hwUgDRaQdw https://twitter.com/McCons/status/1370661397013610498?s=20

13th Mar 2021 9:14am

Co1

Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3682

camelman wrote:
Not quite.
If a business buys a new 90 HT for £50k (£40k + VAT), the first thing they do is reclaim the VAT from the VAT man.
The vehicle has only cost them £40k.

When they sell the vehicle in 3 years time for £30k, (£25+VAT), they then pay the VAT man £5k VAT.

If another business buys the vehicle from them, they can then reclaim this £5k VAT and the cycle goes on.

IF 2 identical vehicles are sat on the forecourt for £30k, one which is VAT registered and one which isn't, it won't make any difference to a private buyer, but the business buyer would take the VAT registered one as they can claim the VAT back and it only costs them £25k.

Got it. Perhaps my nativity got the better of me! I assumed that if two identical vehicles are sat of the forecourt, one VAT registered and one not, I assumed they would be priced at £30k for the VAT registered one and £24k for the one from a private buyer.

13th Mar 2021 9:19am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

camelman wrote:
Not quite.
If a business buys a new 90 HT for £48k (£40k + VAT), the first thing they do is reclaim the £8k VAT from the VAT man.
The vehicle has only cost them £40k.

When they sell the vehicle in 3 years time for £30k, (£25+VAT), they then pay the VAT man £5k VAT from the sale.

If another business buys the vehicle from them, they can then reclaim this £5k VAT and the cycle goes on.

IF 2 identical vehicles are sat on the forecourt for £30k, one which is VAT registered and one which isn't, it won't make any difference to a private buyer, but the business buyer would take the VAT registered one as they can claim the VAT back and it only costs them £25k.

Would the Margin Scheme not be available to the seller?

"If you sell second-hand vehicles on which you were not charged VAT, using the Margin Scheme will save you money.

Without the Margin Scheme, you would have to account for VAT on the full selling price of each vehicle.

But, if you use the Margin Scheme, you can account for VAT on the difference between the price you pay for a second-hand vehicle and the price you sell it for.

If you sell a vehicle for less than you paid for it, you will not have to account for any VAT on the sale."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-margin-sch...otice-7181

13th Mar 2021 9:24am

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3373

Its more at the point of purchase though, a business buyer buying a 2nd hand vehicle will want a VAT registered vehicle as it effectively brings the ticket price down by 20%.

In my example, if a business bought the £30k non vat registered vehicle, it will still cost them £30k.
If they sell it in a year for £20k (again with no VAT ) the margin scheme rules mean they won't have to pay any VAT on the sale price. It still cost them £30k to buy however vs £25 for the VAT registered one.

The margin scheme is primarily aimed at car dealers.

If they buy a private car from you at £10k and sell it for £13k, they have to pay VAT on the £3k difference (even on a private car).

If they sell it at a 'loss' (i.e. an overpriced p/ex), for £8k, they don't have to pay any VAT.

13th Mar 2021 9:34am

cozz

Member Since: 15 May 2013
Location: nottingham
Posts: 539

thanks for the explanation camelman - so how much does that mean you are selling me your unimog for ?

13th Mar 2021 5:33pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3410

Nice, but I would rather the white panels continued onto the rear doors

Click image to enlarge 24MY 90 D250 HSE, Tasman Blue

14th Mar 2021 1:40pm

cozz

Member Since: 15 May 2013
Location: nottingham
Posts: 539

get them wrapped, ive done it before to make a car look like a van

14th Mar 2021 7:06pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3410

Urbans 90 HT

Click image to enlarge

Williams classic 90 HT

Click image to enlarge

I think I prefer the Blue or Green with white combo 24MY 90 D250 HSE, Tasman Blue

17th Mar 2021 5:13pm

Farmerben

Member Since: 16 Jan 2017
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 605

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Keswick Green

Does anyone know if the standard black panel is just darkened glass with interior trim covering it or is it a metal panel? https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews

17th Mar 2021 7:21pm

Digger2000

Member Since: 19 Sep 2020
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 590

99% sure it is glass outside with plastic blank on the inside.

17th Mar 2021 7:29pm

DSL

Member Since: 20 Aug 2007
Location: Wandering the wasteland.
Posts: 837

From the spec, it says privacy glass, however we are (well I am) waiting on someone having a close look trying to remove the inner panel/blank.

And the cargo barrier.

17th Mar 2021 7:29pm

Farmerben

Member Since: 16 Jan 2017
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 605

Thanks, been thinking about getting the standard roof and wrapping it white then taking the interior panels out to let a bit more light in the back. https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews

17th Mar 2021 7:41pm

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