 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > 2020 Defender main discussion thread |
 
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5818   
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Great vid. Thanks for sharing.
Well, I couldn’t agree more. The Kia, sorry Defender is clearly a capable off road vehicle, something we all recognise, but for this test they’ve placed it in the ‘SUV’ category, whereas our pre-2016 Defenders would never have been considered an SUV - that was reserved for its posher sibling the Disco. The argument raised by so many of us. The move away from what it’s target market for 70 years to a new target market. A ‘car’ that would look good on the tarmac outside Buckingham Palace (don’t get me wrong, as a Guardsman I like the tarmac outside Buckingham Palace), and that looks like a bus against the ‘iconic’ FJ or ‘out of place’ against the Forerunner. Why? That’s my (no doubt boring now) question, Why? Why couldn’t they have injected iconic looks? Why couldn’t they have made it look like it was meant for utility usage and off road adventures? Why is it an SUV? Why is it so expensive they didn’t even mention the price. A fully modded Forerunner for $70k. That stock Defender wouldn’t come close to that price and that before you add a rack, winch, protection etc that have been added to the Forerunner. As Tommy says, whilst able, you wouldn’t want to be taking the Defender for proper off-roading in Moab. The Defender has changed colours. Changed stripes. It’s still a capable off roader, but that’s it. In any other regard it bares no resemblance to its predecessor, and this video backs that up. Wonder which category they’d chuck the Grenadier into and how it would perform with its traditional technologies. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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7th Mar 2021 10:59am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510 
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The Grenadier would probably go in with the yard tractors and ATVs, for the true pretend macho men.
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7th Mar 2021 1:45pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17387 
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Oh yawn, you are so predictable.
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7th Mar 2021 5:08pm |
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| Tom_T Member Since: 08 Nov 2020 Location: Essex Posts: 87
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Not this nonsense again. So tiresome.
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7th Mar 2021 5:32pm |
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| nowrxo Member Since: 10 Sep 2015 Location: None Posts: 79 
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It's no less tiresome than the never-ending anti-new Defender propaganda that certain people continue to post. Presumably they think they're being amusing by calling it a Kia. Why not complete the effect by adding "Pretender" and "Offender"?
We get it, Grenadier, you don't like the car and will never ever buy one. You claim that you wouldn't take it "proper" off-reading, yet it beats both the Toyotas. Why are you so obsessed with this vehicle? Why do you think that you (and only you) get to define what a "Defender" is? The last time I checked, it's JLR's property, not yours. This forum really needs an ignore function. |
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7th Mar 2021 10:03pm |
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| SN Member Since: 29 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
The younger of the three 'reviewers' is a complete moron.
Even with the evidence right at the start of the video that the Defender wins hands down, he is still spouting his biassed cr*p. The ancient piece of iron call the 4Runner has had to be tricked up to within an inch of its life to get anywhere near the Defender Steve N | 21MY Defender  | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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7th Mar 2021 10:24pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5818
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The Kia reference is taken from the video. Said by Tommy, not me. As were all the quotes I used.
And as a reminder: Never said I don't like it. Never said I don't want one. Always say it is clearly an excellent off road vehicle. All I said was that the video highlights the difference in the purpose of the new vehicle against the old. It may be boring, but it's a forum, and if someone wants to say or show something that extols the virtues of the new Defender, it can also be challenged. But I only ever challenge it in styling and market audience, something LR (the untouchable proprietors apparently) I felt didn't need to change. As do most people on this forum. As for not having a right to discuss it because it's owned by LR, balls. If they want to claim it's a true successor and take my 70k+ shekels, and plaster it all over the TV and in every magazine, then da*ned right I can have a say in what it looks like, what and who it's for compared with the 70 previous years of the name. Videos and articles supporting the new Defender continue to be posted on a forum where the majority of old-Defender owners did not like LR's direction with the new one. I'm by no means unique in this regard. So, if owners or fans want to support it and show how good it is, that's their right and I've never asked them to stop, then there will be some - who also have every right - to challenge that assertion. I've never been rude and I've never said half the things I'm accused of. I focus on LR and the vision of the New Defender as a legacy vehicle. And whilst it is still claimed to be a worthy successor, whether by LR's marketing men, Gerry McG or anyone on this forum, I will challenge it as in my opinion, it's not. And I certainly have never claimed that the better, tougher, more muscled, more hirsute, ruck sack wearing, axe wielding, Bear Grylls type man drives a classic Defender or will eventually drive a Grenadier. Nor, Philip, do I understand your misguided belief that I want the new Grenadier to be uncomfortable, cold, noisy, bad handling etc. If I did, it would be called a Puma. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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7th Mar 2021 10:41pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5818
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No one is debating the clear ability of the Defender. No one has. It is clearly exceptional. I say that sincerely. It is also, IMO, clearly not of the same classification as its forebear. Not in cost, not in practicality, not in its adaptability, not in its classless appeal, not in its target market. As the 'older' of the three reviewers said, 'your normal Defender owner wouldn't be doing this until the vehicle was seven years old'. Why, if as LR says, it's the true successor and carrier of the Defender name? That's the point so many people supporting the new Defender miss. It's not about what it can do (brilliantly) but what it IS. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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7th Mar 2021 10:46pm |
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| ruben Member Since: 04 Feb 2021 Location: ASTURIAS Posts: 195 
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Totaly agree!!!
I bring this from an intervention of mine in a brother forum to this one, in DISCO3.co.uk ... "I will try to be concise! I have tried a new defender, I liked it, it would replace my current D3, but it has left me cold, and above all very indecisive, to my great annoyance, its quality and sensations, although good, are not as good as to pay the small fortune LR intends to charge, today I think it is clearly overrated !!! It's a shame, I don't think I'm willing to go through it, now I think I don't feel like crossing that door at all! yes, I could feel the permagrin factor! yes, yes..., only now I'm older and more hippie 😃😃 but it is precisely what makes me doubt ... it is to have the feel the same as 15 years ago with my D3, but at double its price ... really? .... light version of clothing ... 40,000 € then .... 78,000 now!!, something contradictory given the technological improvements more accessible to the automotive world and especially the low salaries in Nitra... oh my god!! I think that LR, the little that is going to sell, will be in the select market ( will be cars with 2 or 3 years and low kilometres) at least here in Spain ... it seems that LR´s guys what they want...will see!! and perhaps by then, some orders, currently underway, are still to be delivered!!" 😅 ...In short ... I would understand it if I had not already spent 15 years with the same car for a fraction of the money ... and I would not understand it if it were to replace a genuine classic FEFENDER!! greetings to all and sorry for my bad english!!  |
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7th Mar 2021 11:45pm |
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| SN Member Since: 29 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
^^^ Your english is fine!
Better than my spanish which will get me around a restaurant and bar but not much further! 
I haven't seen the word 'permagrin' for a long long time but recall that feeling now when I bought my first D3 brand new in February 2006 - it was an S spec (second level of trim at the time) and cost me £32K (did get £2K off too) - my Defender on order is also an S spec (again second level of trim) and its cost me £57K (mainly because I've spent a load on the Explorer pack, paint and other bits) - I think it would have been £51K without extras - so a price rise of £17K (or about 50% on the D3 list) over 15 years actually isn't that excessive - its only a 3.5% per year price rise (with compound). Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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8th Mar 2021 9:29am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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That's not a topic I've seen any new Defender owner want to discuss. |
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8th Mar 2021 9:54am |
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| SN Member Since: 29 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
I'm happy to discuss it - in my business its called "Off Shoring" - any one who buys ANYTHING made in China is implicitly signing up to being happy with the concept - but its not all bad - wage levels only need to be sufficient to match the cost of living in these places to be acceptable.
[soapboxmode=on] It's much the same with the disgusting ogre that is London & South East House Prices which are used as a justification for higher wages there (whether they deserve it or not) versus the rest of the UK. [soapboxmode=off] Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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8th Mar 2021 10:05am |
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| Simon Audi Member Since: 19 Nov 2020 Location: Newport Posts: 544
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Yes - the wages must be comparable with all other industries and probably higher than many - especially when you factor in benefits you get working for a larger employer..
Often (Not sure in Nitra) there is gyms, social clubs, family days, bonuses etc.. company meals, travel allowance etc.. that take the overall Package Up. Audi do the same in Hungary... Its the way of the world.... |
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8th Mar 2021 10:13am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Indeed. It’s pretty clear now, however, that the Defender does everything the old one could, but much, much better (as you’d hope and expect). The Grenadier brings absolutely nothing to the party, because its archaic underpinnings cannot be anything but a hinderance to its abilities - so however much you don’t want it to be uncomfortable or handle badly or whatever, by objective comparison, it will. I’m sure it will be better than an old Defender, but that’s hardly a benchmark. Say I want a new work vehicle - what sort of line of work favours the Grenadier’s approach over a Hard Top Defender? (By “work”, I mean in the course of a job, not the sort of rugged leisure fantasies most of the solid axle acolytes seem to consider relevant). |
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8th Mar 2021 4:18pm |
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