 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Main Grenadier discussion thread |
 
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| Nitroneil Member Since: 05 Mar 2019 Location: Stirling Posts: 132  
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Ah, so it is, found another pic that shows it clearer, thats handy if it makes it all the way to production. Handier than the alpine lights even  90S D250 fuji and loving it. |
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17th Feb 2021 11:12am |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881  
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I was hoping alpine lights might have been an option but looking at the build video it looks unlikely
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17th Feb 2021 11:48am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5876  
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Why is three times (or more) the torsional stiffness of the new Defender versus the G-Wagen or old Defender of any importance to the Grenadier? It clearly has no aspirations to be a fast road or track car, but a utility vehicle. Off road and in rougher terrain a completely rigid chassis isn’t always an advantage, indeed could be a disadvantage. The new Defender’s terrain control system overcomes this, but that’s not the Grenadier’s approach. So if the Grenadier (and it has yet to be tested) passes necessary safety tests for side impacts and rolling, why is this a compromise? Not every car has to be built to the nth degree in all parameters. Sometimes real-world usage and abusage is just as important. The aim behind this is distinctly not to create an SUV with high NCAP ratings that might be important to families, but instead a utility vehicle for use in a far more varied set of scenarios and clearly not the same demographic as the new Defender and at a far lower price point. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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17th Feb 2021 1:16pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510 
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Yes - maybe poor safety, poor dynamics and a weak platform was exactly what they were going for. Real men don’t want those things, after all.
More seriously, this is going to be far, far more expensive than the basic pickups which will do exactly the same job. |
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17th Feb 2021 1:39pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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New Defender 3 times stiffer ~ old Bulldog, built by a man in a shed, is 4 times stiffer... go figure; and that's based on a chassis design rather than unibody.
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17th Feb 2021 1:58pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Bowler platform is supposed to be four times torsionally stiffer than an old Defender, not a new G Class - and it’s effectively an all-aluminium spaceframe incorporating a FIA-spec cage.
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17th Feb 2021 2:08pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Look again ~ it's not aluminium...
 Click image to enlarge And I'd question it being called a spaceframe ~ it's a clever ladder frame chassis with a cage. Decidedly old school and stiffer than the unibody of the new Defender. Click image to enlarge As to bemused LR engineers ~ you might have mistaken that for general disorientation. They've done so many about about turns on pickups, platforms, BEV or not, then there's cancelled programmes, delayed programmes, headcount reductions, etc...and now they've been told to "Reimage" ~ which is just a very polite French man's way of saying "Non, that's not going to work, go back and try again". Last edited by Supacat on 17th Feb 2021 2:53pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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17th Feb 2021 2:33pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Current Bowler CSP chassis is laser-cut aluminium, unless their press office is lying - and is clearly wholly unsuited for any kind of volume production, despite whatever torsional rigidity a full multi-point FIA cage might add.
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17th Feb 2021 2:50pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Quote me a link?
"Land Rover has given us permission to produce vehicles using the classic Defender shape in the next phase of development for our all-terrain performance cars and rally raid vehicles. This new agreement paves the way for us to develop a new family of high-performance models, beginning with a project codenamed ‘CSP 575’ – a new road-going vehicle with our own rally-proven CSP high-strength steel chassis". https://www.bowlermotors.com/news/csp575/ |
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17th Feb 2021 3:00pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4224 
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Car manufacturers have been obsessed with boasting about chassis rigidity for ages now, but I'm convinced that it is born out of the trend for ever sportier, race car like handling. To a lesser extent I think it helps with perceived quality too, i.e. fewer squeaks and rattles. I don't believe it has much, if any bearing on whether a vehicle is actually robust and durable or not or whether it is a strong utility vehicle.
A Bowler must be a billion times more rigid than a Unimog. Few people would argue that a Unimog isn't robust. I know they are deliberately bendy to help articulation, which the Grenadier probably wont be, but I think it illustrates that high torsional rigidity isn't really a measure of anything important in the case of a utility vehicles. Click image to enlarge 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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17th Feb 2021 3:07pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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An Autocar error.
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge I wonder how much stiffer the caged Bond Defenders are? |
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17th Feb 2021 3:13pm |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 812 
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I'm excited to see it, and it looks like it's really going to happen.
2 wipers now too! I'm still concerned about the price though, for a niche market, possibly low volume utility vehicle I can't see how it can be any cheaper than the new Defender which rolls down the line with Discos (or whatever)? |
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17th Feb 2021 3:24pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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It’s not the Defender it needs to compete against (how could it?), it’s the basic pickups that will do exactly the same jobs. Presumably Ratcliffe won’t be looking for profits.
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17th Feb 2021 3:32pm |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 812
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Maybe not for many, but then I'm only speaking for myself.
The new Defender was likely to be our next family vehicle, and although I'm now over my initial disappointment of the looks, and it not being a utility, I've not got over the luxury price-point. |
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17th Feb 2021 3:49pm |
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