 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.2 Engine Cooling |
 
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 22  
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Hi ob1,
thanks for confirming the partnumbers! 
So this reassures us there isn't a thermostat fitted to the 2.2 and it shouldn't be. Regarding your idea to try a different brand for the main-thermostat, I do know that it is not very unusual that these do fail over time. But I don't think they are neither very poor quality nor do they have a lot of problems with fluctuations in quality. Otherwise the guys in the workshops would be well aware of this... As you've gone through 2 new genuine ones, if I remember correctly, and we used one, chances are actually very very little that all of them would have been faulty right out of the box. Do you have the chance to remove your viscous fan for a test run? Or maybe you dealer has a spare one around to simply swap it out to make sure its not the fan that is causing the trouble? Should be easier and cheaper all in all than changing your thermostat once again. A brand new fan isn't cheap in that matter, thats why I would want to swap it out with another one, to confirm before throwing in that money... With us still being in "lock-down" the coming weeks, there won't be many new findings from our side I assume.... |
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30th Dec 2020 12:30pm |
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| Lester247 Member Since: 16 May 2020 Location: Cornwall Posts: 1  
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Have the same heat dropping off problem on my 2.2. Really only noticed since the weather has gotten so cold.
Keen to hear a decisive solution. Have considered a Rad Muff & an under-bonnet insulation pad. Other option is scream around like a nutter to keep the engine hot. Drove my T4 today, heater works as it should & it was bliss. I want to get back to loving my defender real soon. |
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4th Jan 2021 7:46pm |
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| Siwynne Member Since: 04 Nov 2016 Location: West lancs Posts: 578 
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I cover about 50miles a day on and off motorways I noticed mine was struggling to heat the cabin and dropping to very cold at idle. A coolant check revealed I had lost some via the header cap. This happened a couple of times and a new cap has resolved the issue completely. It’s sits at just above cold on the gauge but gives enough warmth to warm the cabin. For a couple of quid a cap is worth replacing if it maintains the correct pressure in the system
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4th Jan 2021 11:45pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52 
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So updates from me ...
I collected my LR today as it had been in the garage for the 80,000 mile service (as a reminder it has done 47,00, so this 12 month service was time-based). All fine and also passed the MOT. I additionally had the cooling system drained again and a new main thermostat fitted, then new coolant added and bled accordingly. In terms of the oil cooler thermostat, the LR garage confirmed the following: - Vehicles with 2.2 Puma engines with chassis numbers DA444246 have oil cooler thermostats fitted. - Vehicles with 2.2 Puma engines with chassis numbers DA4442467 and onwards do NOT have a thermostat fitted. (Early 2.2's had problems with the oil pumps apparently - if you had an early 2.2 (circa 2012) some engines were replaced by LR under warranty. The replacement units were the updated engine - ergo no oil cooler thermostat on these.) The garage confirmed my viscous fan was operating correctly (free when cold) and were very confident that mine was fine (they had other vehicles there of similar age / mileage that they had compared with that had viscous fans that were dragging much more than mine). In terms of how mine is now running - it was a milder day today, but it did seem to get to temp quicker and a short drive between two junctions on the motorway had it up to normal operating temperature. I have of course yet to try it on a cold day, plus of course leave it running on idle and see if the temp drops off. Without wishing to sound pessimistic, I suspect it will still not operate correctly. So in terms of where to go from here, the 'band-aid' / 'sticky-plaster' options are looming if a true root fix cannot be found. I will report back when I have had chance to test it a little more. |
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6th Jan 2021 6:53pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 22
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Thanks for your update ob1conobe,
looking forward to hearing about your test drive then 
So far no news from our side. I am waiting for the parcel with the allegedly faulty viscous fan to try if it makes any difference on my Defender, which in running fine so far. Just to rule things out... |
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6th Jan 2021 7:35pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 22
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Hi ob1conobe, just had another look at your post from yesterday and the given numbers. They seem to have mixed up something with the oil cooler thermostat, or they don't really know what they are talking about. Let me show you what I found out, so that you can see yourself... The changeover VIN-number (DA444246), which corresponds to roughly MY2013, ist when they actually changed the entire oil cooler/filter assembly. Easiest recognised by having a look at your oil filter. Earlier models do have the paper filter element, whereas later ones do have the metal spin-on cartridge. Earlier model up to DA444246: LR029928 Later model from DA444247 on: LR058091 So, if you compare those two units...just have a look at the pics on google, you can see a difference where the coolant hose attaches. On the later one the hose attaches directly to the casting. On the earlier ones, there is this adapter used, which is available as a version with thermostat (LR004557 and LR005894) and as just the shell without a thermostat (LR029936). As we had in previous posts... So it is certainly not correct to say vehicles up to DA444246 did have an oil cooler thermostat. To my knowledge, which is based on comparing part numbers from various sources (lrworkshop, lrcat, advancedfactors, etc.), the 2.4 engine did have an oil cooler thermostat fitted, and with changeover to the 2.2 engine, there isn't one fitted anymore. At least up to VIN DA444246, as I don't know about the newer type oil filter housing. Hope that makes sense. Let me know what you think... In which VIN-range is your model? I know it is a MY2013, but it right about in this MY when they changed things a bit. Me and my mate, we both have the a MY2013 with the old paper oil filter element. So before DA444246. Regards, Phil |
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7th Jan 2021 11:45am |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 22
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Hello,
so some short update. We've ruled out the viscous fan by fitting it to a different defender, and it's working absolutely fine. The search goes on I guess... :-/ Any update from you, ob1conobe? |
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14th Jan 2021 12:22pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434  
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Apologies if this is random, but I remove the viscous fan in the winter. Left at idle the engine cools, but stabilises about 60 degrees when it’s 0 outside. And therefore heat in traffic or waiting on the wife to do what ever. It also warms up faster. The spinning fan - even with the viscous clutch as open as it can be - still moves quite a lot of air. Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭
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15th Jan 2021 5:26pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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Sorry for the delay in responding - I've been busy doing some mixed driving trips, including on the motorway. So the results so far indicate a change in performance having had the most recent thermostat fitted. Before I go on - please note it has been milder here since having the thermostat changed, so higher ambient temperature generally speaking. It seems to get up to temperature (half way on the gauge) a little quicker and does actually get there. Driving on A roads or the motorway, it sits there quite happily and stays where it should be. If I stand idle on tick-over without the internal fan on, it seems to drop to about 1/4 on the gauge. If I put the internal fan on setting 1, to keep the cabin warm, it still drops off to the bottom of the gauge. So marginally happier in as much as it is at least getting up to where it should be when used, but still suffering from the idle issue. In regard to the garage and their advice regarding part numbers / oil cooler etc. I've emailed them and copy / pasted your post Phil. Not received a response yet, but will post when I do. More generally speaking, I am starting to wonder if the replacement OEM parts are not as good as the originals? I've heard this can be the case for some manufacturers. Maybe the thermostats are just not that great? i.e. they dont fully close perhaps when cold - maybe some coolant is still passing through? Only suggesting this based on the variation of experiences I have had over the course of 3 thermostats .... More food for thought ... |
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16th Jan 2021 1:47pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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Thanks for your input with this topic. From reading what you've put here, this would indicate that my suspicions are correct in as much as there must be coolant circulating through the radiator even when cold, otherwise the fan would make no difference. |
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16th Jan 2021 1:52pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 472  
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Generally speaking, modern engines have two coolant systems. The regular one for standard use and a reduced one allowing for shorter warming-up phases The heater is not being part of the reduced system. The switch is température controlled |
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16th Jan 2021 8:03pm |
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| Oldyellar Member Since: 04 Sep 2015 Location: Central Posts: 384  
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My 2.2 rwd transit has the same issue. I've had a few of them and 2 have done it and one didn't.
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17th Jan 2021 10:26am |
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| Tjhappel Member Since: 08 Aug 2012 Location: Southern California Posts: 32  
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I think you guys sound like the type to appreciate this, I have a 2010 2.4 110 and the first cold season I had it I noticed my hearing going away at stop signs or stop lights. It’s been such a fight for me and a challenge that I totally replaced my viscous fan with an electric fan, I put the acoustic heat blanket on, changed EVERY single thermostat twice and nothing seems to work. To make matters worse I also have the inverse issue of my car overheating very quickly when the outside temps go above 33-35c. I have a much larger intercooler for the heat as I live in the American southwest where it’s always hot but I ski a ton so I installed a larger intercooler and multiple other things to make it run smoother not overheat on every hill....
I had to go way way way deep within Land Rover but I finally got some heavy up guys from Land Rover Australia who just admitted that some of the engines from the 2.4 range just had issues with this and they replaced the entire engine.... true story, seems crazy to me since it’s logical that it has to be a single part of issue that just needs fixing? I’m not a mechanic at all but I’ve spent a lot of time and money om this. Please IF ANYONE finds anything let me know, I’m happy to try anything. |
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2nd Mar 2021 6:38am |
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| Oldyellar Member Since: 04 Sep 2015 Location: Central Posts: 384
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How did you ever manage to get a 2010 defender in the US
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2nd Mar 2021 6:34pm |
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