 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.2 Engine Cooling |
 
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23  
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Yes, right hand thread.
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15th Dec 2020 7:35pm |
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| Two90s Member Since: 24 Dec 2020 Location: Southern UK Posts: 40  
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Just in case it helps, our 2012 2.2 TdCi Puma is toasty warm in the cold mornings, and defrosts quickly, No way is the behaviour described above normal, so something is going wrong. Also I discovered the heated screen is working correctly, which massively helps defrosting.
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24th Dec 2020 10:25pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52 
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Thanks for your experiences Two90s. Your vehicle sounds like it runs like mine used to!
The mystery continues ... In way of an update, I contacted my local Land Rover garage and asked them about the oil cooler thermostat and if this could be an issue. He typed my number plate in their system and said that the computer was showing that my 2.2 did have one fitted. I popped in one evening and asked them to physically check. It turns out my vehicle does NOT have one fitted despite their computer indicating that it does. So that whole line of thinking has ruled this out for me now. If my vehicle never had one fitted and used to work OK, the issue must be somewhere else. Something else has changed. Just to work out what ... |
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27th Dec 2020 7:05pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23
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Hey ob1,
yeah that’s the same we figured out. The parts-catalogue still calls it oil cooler thermostat, when in fact it isn’t one anymore. Just the plastic housing of it that’s left. So right you are. That definitely can not be the reason for the faulty behaviour. Haven’t had any further investigation going until now, so unfortunately no news from our side. Would be interesting to know if yours would be working fine with the viscous fan removed as well. As promised, we let you know once we figure it out 👍 Phil |
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27th Dec 2020 7:12pm |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 361 |
I read with interest. The thermostat is a purely thermodynamically functioning part. Stupid question, but why don't you install a thermostat for oil cooling at the designated place (as a trial)? That would make the oil temperature somewhat more independent of the water temperature....?!
To maintain the insanity a little: According to the parts lists, the TD4 has three (sic!) water thermostats. One engine thermostat (confirmed), one on the water pump (not confirmed, LR004618) and one on the oil cooler (not confirmed, LR004557). I know that thermostat of the water pump definately does not exist. BUT I am not sure für the oilcooler-thermostat because there are VIN-ranges mentioned, http://new.lrcat.com/#!/1235/3714/3991/310/4049. Maybe you can't visable check it from outside?! Last edited by hornet on 28th Dec 2020 2:07pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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28th Dec 2020 1:43pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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Not a stupid question at all; I guess if we can't get a resolution to the core issue, this would definitely be something to try along with the other various 'band-aid' fixes.
To be honest, I am still not 100% clear on what iterations of both the 2.4 and the 2.2 they used a oil cooler thermostat on - we thought it was the 2.4's only, but my local LR garage suggested it was used on some 2.2's also (albeit the computer was wrong in my specific case). The only working theory I have left with this is that maybe they moved the thermostat somewhere else - perhaps hidden or not obvious in another component? I'm reaching to be honest and as you'll have previously read, I'm no mechanic. The logic for me at the moment is simply, I've never had one, so whatever is causing the current issue cannot be related to a oil cooler thermostat. As you will see on the thread - Phill is investigating further with some other ideas, so it will be interesting to hear of his findings. My LR is due a service in early Jan - I'm going to ask them to change the main water thermostat once again (this will be the 3rd one assuming they have actually changed it good for their word). I'm not hopeful this will sort it out, but I think I can happily put that solution to bed after 3 thermostats. |
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28th Dec 2020 1:53pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23
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We don’t, because as ob1conobe stated above, there has never been one fitted to the system and it worked fine before. So something else is causing the malfunction and installing an oil cooler thermostat would not rectify it.
Of course, LR doesn’t tell us why this thermostat has been removed along the way, but from what I have found in all the forums, it did cause a lot of other problems. So for me there is no point in installing one. This would be a whole different story if I would not be happy with the entire cooling system as such. But it’s quite clear, that something else is causing these problems here, as it has been working fine before... Hope that makes sense  |
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28th Dec 2020 1:54pm |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 361 |
I agree completely! Sorry for editing my former post so late, but I added more information. Question: Did you check the connecting nozzle of the oil-cooler-thermostat for any thermostat? It's cold and rainy, otherwise I would check myself if you are able to check that from outside.....
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28th Dec 2020 2:13pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23
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Hey guys,
looks like ob1 has replied as well while I was typing my post. Sorry if that got a bit confusing now 
To check wether your defender has an oil cooler thermostat installed or not, you have to remove the hose, and have a look inside. Unfortunately you can’t tell from outside. At least not that I know of. Maybe there is a part number visible on yours. From what I found out according part numbers, the 2.2 engine doesn’t have the oil cooler thermostat anymore. What’s a bit confusing is, that it is however sometimes still described as “thermostat”. That is LR029936. On the 2.4 engine, part number LR005894 has been used. Looking the same from the outside but does actually contain the thermostat. Just google these part numbers and you will see the difference. LR004557 has been used in the pre-TDCi era. LR004618 is the main-thermostat used on the 2.4 engine. At least that is what I found out using lrworkshop, which has been pretty accurate so far. Hope that helps. Our next steps will be to check the viscous fan. And if that seems to be in good shape, I want to assure the main thermostat is working properly before further investigation... |
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28th Dec 2020 2:42pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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Hi Phil - just read your reply also.
I noticed your point about the oil thermostat being visible only by removing a hose. When I popped in to the garage recently to got them to check mine, I don't believe they would have done this as they literally only had it for a short period of time while I waited. I am querying your point on the basis the garage may not know this. If this is the case, and on the basis they only did a quick external check, it may be possible that mine does have one fitted and it could be faulty. I'm going to get them to change the water thermostat anyway whilst they've got it for the upcoming service on the 4th Jan - while the system is drained I'll ask them to check in the oil cooler hose as you have indicated. Cheers. |
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28th Dec 2020 11:49pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23
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Hi ob1,
there are a few numbers imprinted on the outside of that housing, but not a LR parts number on the one that I’ve seen. So maybe there is a way to find out according to the numbers, but I really don’t think the dealers would. Did not have any experience with them which would make me think differently at least.
So, if no one has been tinkering on your system and fitting the wrong part, chances are very high that you actually don’t have one in there. If you want them to drain the system anyway, that’s a 2 minute job to check. |
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29th Dec 2020 9:02am |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 361 |
Wouldn't it be easy to test the thermostat at home with (cold/warm/hot) water? It starts to open at apprx. 82°C. If it's closed when cold that thing should be fine, and if you fill it with cooked water and it opens...! |
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29th Dec 2020 2:55pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23
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Hi hornet...
yeah we tried that after fitting the new thermostat and the system still being faulty. My friend tried that (it's his car which is about 400km away, so only remote diagnostics at the moment). What he said is, it's extremely difficult to see, because it being in this stupid plastic housing. It does open when pouring in hot water. But that was to be expected as the engine is not overheating. If the thermostat would be the culprit, then it might open at a temperature way lower than it should, or it doesn't close properly at all. When pouring in cold water, there is a bit coming through. But he couldn't teil it that is because of the thermostat not closing 100% or the water passing through where the jiggle valve is. The old one was taken apart already by that stage, so no help in comparing it unfortunately. As far as I was told, this should be pretty normal. Before draining the system for the third time, he wants to make sure the viscous fan is ok, as it does work fine with the fan removed. |
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29th Dec 2020 4:26pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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I had a chat with the parts department at my local LR today.
They confirmed the following regarding the oil cooler thermostat: Part number: LR029936 should be fitted to my vehicle (2.2) Part number: LR004557 should be fitted to early 2.4's Part number: LR005894 should be fitted to later 2.4's I have attached some diagrams they provided detailing the cooling system and oil cooler parts for my 2.2. I have tried to attach these to this post:  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Part number identified as 6 on the first pic is the suspect item. |
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29th Dec 2020 5:27pm |
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