 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.2 Engine Cooling |
 
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| miker Member Since: 13 Sep 2015 Location: Surrey Posts: 1763   
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In colder months, modern diesel engines often just don't produce enough excess heat at idle to remain warm in my experience.
Even my TD5 will cool off if it's sat still for long enough in the cold. |
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1st Mar 2020 3:51pm |
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| andydef90 Member Since: 09 Feb 2015 Location: yorkshire Posts: 617 
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has above my puma loses heat fast when stood the viscos van is still pulling cold air in even when its standing at idle so it pulls the cold air in just a thought have you checked the fan to make sure its not stuck
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2nd Mar 2020 12:34pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3497 
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I have a 2014 2.2 and found to my cost, stuck on a dual carriageway with an articulated lorry stuck between both armco barriers during the beast from the east, that on tick over, the Defender heater was only just tepid.
I'm sure this has been highlighted on here not so long ago. Don't ask me who or how to search for the thread. As the first two responses, I believe this to be normal and not the result of Brexit  |
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2nd Mar 2020 12:45pm |
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| JOE_130 Member Since: 26 Nov 2014 Location: Chelmsford Posts: 104 
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Definitely a Puma Defender thing... both ours drop to stone cold when not under load. Don't stand a chance of getting them up to temperature unless you can cruise along at a reasonable speed for a while when it's cold. You can keep some temperature stationary but only if you sit there holding the revs up manually.
Fuel fired heater or a roll down radiator blanket the way to go! |
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3rd Mar 2020 11:56am |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52 
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Just found this video on YouTube:
Its a ford 2.0 TDCi engine - but the theory of why it's not getting up to temperature properly may still hold true on a 2.2 TDCi. I'm no mechanic but I have not seen this possible resolution anywhere. I'm sure the more mechanically minded may have a view? |
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9th Dec 2020 12:00am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414  
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I find my Puma 2.2 takes a very long time to warm up, and I live in a moderate temperature environment.. about 15dC in winter. I never like to let it idle for ling time, not good for the dpf, but of course your comfort over the dpf.. so do not know if it will do the same if left to idle for longer period.
But if it was ok, and now not, something is not right. Or perhaps can consider a radiator muff. I think they look cool as well. PS. A cold running engine will wear the bores faster. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Dec 2020 12:23pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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Idling is OK as long as you regularly give it a proper run (e.g. a few junction of the motorway @70mph).
The radiator muff idea I had considered, but it isn't addressing the core issue. I'm hoping the YouTube video suggestion fixes it - worth a shot ... |
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9th Dec 2020 11:06pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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I would be interested to know if anyone else has attempted this engine over-cooling fix ...
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10th Dec 2020 12:00pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23 
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Hi everyone,
just stumbled upon this thread as my mates Defender, also 2013 2.2 tdci, shows exactly the same symptoms. We‘ve already changed the main thermostat with no difference at all. The viscous fan is doing it‘s job properly. Even tried removing it completely. The electric fan is also not running. So this lead me to thinking the oil thermostat might be the solution. Same as shown in the video above. But when trying to remove it, we discovered that there actually isn’t a thermostat fitted to the oil cooler anymore. According to the part numbers, the earlier 2.4 had a thermostat fitted in there but later ones and the 2.2 don‘t. All that remains, is the hose connector which used to house the thermostat. Curious if anyone discovered something similar? Next move will be to try and clamp off the hose leading to the oil cooler, to see if it actually makes any difference whatsoever. I will let you know what we find out... Regards, Phil |
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11th Dec 2020 1:48pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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Would be really interested to hear the output of your testing using the clamp.
As mentioned before, I am no mechanic, but is their a possibility the 2.2 oil cooler has an in-built thermostat? Maybe they optimized its location? Something has suddenly changed in my vehicle - it worked fine and now it does not. Just a case of working out what .... |
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11th Dec 2020 2:40pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23
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From what I found out so far, comparing diagrams and part numbers etc, the 2.4 and 2.2 both are using the same oil cooler assembly. The only part that has changed somewhere along the line is the hose connector, which in earlier models incorporates the oil cooler thermostat. The 2.2 still uses this same hose connector part as such, but without the actual thermostat assembly. So from my Point of view, there is actually no oil cooler thermostat installed anymore.
But I totally agree with you, that the behaviour shown is not normal and something is definitely not working correctly. We will keep you updated once we find out more. But it may take a few days. I want to be certain, the main thermostat is doing what it’s supposed to do, that means checking and comparing temperatures of the different hoses. Maybe blocking off the radiator to see if that makes a difference. The cooling system doesn‘t seem to be overly complicated, which is leaving us with not many more components to check. We won’t give up though!! 💪 Regard, Phil |
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11th Dec 2020 7:56pm |
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| ob1conobe Member Since: 10 Jan 2014 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 52
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Sounds good Phill. It's great to finally meet someone who has (a) been having the same issues and (b) actually looking for a root-cause fix rather than a band-aid fix.
I've changed the thermostat on mine twice now (I say me - my local Land Rover garage which was until a year or so ago a main agent - same people, kit, tools, knowledge etc. just now cheaper hourly rate!) and it hasn't fixed the issue. Do keep me posted - I get the vibe that this is a fairly common problem - people seem to just accept it and consider it par for the course. Indeed some say its not an issue!? I don't understand this as trying to defrost the vehicle on a cold morning, and then drive it freezing all the way to work, for me is an issue. If the engine was doing this and you owned a Ford Mondeo, I'm sure they would want it fixed! Anyway - please do keep me posted with your results. Cheers! |
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12th Dec 2020 7:35pm |
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| philippr86 Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 23
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Hi ob1conobe, sure thing!
Band-aid fixes or provisionally fixes have their place when out in the open field somewhere or what so ever. Other than that I like to do things the proper way which definitely means looking for whats causing it. Also, running your engine too cold for prolonged periods does cause a lot of unnecessary wear and tear. Similar to using your car for short distance trips all the time. So definitely worth fixing IMO.. This one is kind of difficult as it isn't my own defender but my mates one who lives some hundred kilometres away. So all in all, my mate put it all back together again with the new genuine thermostat, which actually did not change the behaviour at all. We made sure the system was properly vented and tried a few things: We blocked the water radiator by placing a cut to size cardboard in front of it. That did improve things massively. In my understanding, that could mean two things. Either, there is water flowing through the radiator when it isn's supposed to, namely when the engine isn't at temperature yet. This is then routed into the cooling circuit. This would mean, the new thermostat would be faulty as well. So second step was removing the cardboard again and removing the viscous fan as well. Engine was also warming up properly and keeping its temperature. So this might indicate either a faulty viscous fan which is pulling/pushing too much air when it shouldn't. Or as described above, a faulty thermostat still. So next step will be to use the viscous fan from another defender which does work properly and check if this makes any difference to both cars. While preparing that, we might try to clamp off the hose going from the radiator towards the thermostat. I will keep you posted... |
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15th Dec 2020 3:42pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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On the early engines, up to 200tdi for sure, the viscous fan is mounted on the water pump with a left hand thread. Would be good if someone here can state if the tdci is using a left hand or right hand thread for the viscous fan nut. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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15th Dec 2020 6:20pm |
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