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Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

addressing a-not-so-great gearchange (MT82)

Hi everyone.

I'm fast closing in on the last few niggles on my 2010CSW. Then the fun begins with the mods.

The last thing I have to address mechanically is the gearchange. Its just not that great - the best way to describe it is las being a bit notchy - I'm having to push the stick quite hard and feel it into gear.

There's no grinding or anything like that, so it feels more like a linkage issue.

I've recently had a new Clutchfix HD kit fitted with the 2.2 concentric bearing and an Ashcroft output shaft and the gearchange feel was the same before and after the clutch - just not great. The vehicle has covered just 45k miles, with a good service history and I've recently had the transmission oils changed.

So - its time to address it. Now I suspect that one of the plastic components in the shifter crucible has cracked or disintegrated, the shifter is running dry of grease or the Technical Bulletin fix, LTB00585, is needed. No great drama - its all easily fixed.

Now in December my new Wright Off Road matting arrives. So while I'm changing that, its the perfect time to do some work on the shifter.

I want to the fix the issue and, while I've got the matting out, also take the opportunity to fit a Syncrogearboxes Slick Shift and a LOF clutch spring. Even on brand new delivery mileage Pumas (I used to work at a dealership), I've never been that keen on the factory gearchange or the clutch weight.

Just to be clear - the fix and the slickshift are independent of each other, I would never use an upgrade part to mask a symptom - so I'll be doing both jobs at once.

I'm looking for advice on which parts to order so that I can tackle the jwhole shooting-match in one go and be confident that the shifter is spot on before I refit the mat. This is my list so far:

1) The main pivot ball on the gearstick could be worn or cracked (metal component coated with a thin plastic shell) - this will be replaced by an all steel unit as part of the slickshift kit anyway.
2) The plastic cup in which the main pivot ball hangs could be cracked or worn - suggest I buy a new one, it'll only cost a few pounds and I'll have the old one in my hand as part of the swap - though I can't find a part number for this anywhere.
3) The plastic cup that clicks onto the lower selector ball could be cracked or worn - again, I'll have this out anyway and a new one is just Â£4 from Syncrogearboxes so may as well have one to hand.
4) Do the fix in technical bulletin LTB00585. Easy, I'll order the bits - they're only a few pounds... but not sure if this is still needed with the slickshift kit, I'll have to have a dig through the fitting instructions to see if any of the affected parts are replaced.
5) assemble with lots of grease as per the syncrogearboxes video.
6) fit the LOF clutch spring kit while the matting is away from the pedal.

Can anyone think if I've missed anything that might be a factor? With such a low mileage box, I'm expecting the result to be better than factory.

11th Nov 2020 1:05am

Co1

Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3675

Does it get better as things warm up? Might point to an issue with the oil in the gearbox if so. If not then your probably on the right track with the linkage, lever etc.

11th Nov 2020 6:08am

Wild Card 90

Member Since: 03 Dec 2014
Location: Gerlingen
Posts: 1060

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver

Looks like you are covering most possible sources. However, Iâ€™d agree with Co1, that the first place to look is the oil. Check to see what comes out, and see if fresh oil improves matters. The Defender gearbox is a little notchy when cold (particularly 2nd gear).
I personally would apply all other measures before adding the slickshift. It will make the change feel more precise and mechanical, but will exentuate a bad gear change. This may confuse your findings somewhat. 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW,
2012 2.2 90 SW,
2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma
Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s,
Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons

11th Nov 2020 7:38am

Mike_E

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 161

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Aintree Green

have a read of this;

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic71984.html

my gearbox went from perfect, to undriveable, back to perfect. All with two changes of oil...

Mike

11th Nov 2020 9:46am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17383

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

There are many "what-ifs" and I don't think you'll really know until you get the lever mechanism apart.

I found that lubricating the lever pivot, ball, and any moving parts made a huge difference (and I still believe that the gearshift on my '07 110 is the best and nicest Landrover gearshift I have ever driven that isn't on a Series I, far better than an R380). The bush upgrade didn't seem to have any particular effect.

One factor I have never seen mentioned in any discussion of notchiness is the disappointing design of the selector shaft detent assemblies, especially on all but the earlies Defenders. These are well-known for the "stuck-in-gear" problem, but when you strip an MT82 you also realise that they never received any adequate lubrication when in service, and I suspect that in many cases it may be that they become very sticky, potentially causing a notchy shift and increasing the likelihood of the stuck-in-gear issue. Their cheapness of design and construction is one of the major disappointments, possibly the only one, of the otherwise good MT82 design, in my opinion.

11th Nov 2020 10:58am

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Thanks guys.

I'll work my way through. Re: the gearbox oil - I had this changed shortly after I bought it in summer. I can't remember if it made it better or worse (at the time I was distracted by the worn rear hubs) - then I would guess it was changed again or at least topped up when the output shaft was changed (not sure if that requires the oil to be changed), but I'll give it a good check too.

11th Nov 2020 1:01pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17383

Changing the output adaptor shaft requires the oil to be drained from the transfer box but not the gearbox. It is quite possible therefore that the MT82 oil was not changed.

11th Nov 2020 1:34pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Thanks Blackwolf.

So I bought it in July and had all the transmission oils changed at a local specialist in August. It was another garage that fitted the new output shaft in October.

At least now I know that if there is an issue with the oil used that only one garage has been involved.

11th Nov 2020 2:37pm

stew 46

Member Since: 26 Jan 2012
Location: Wadebridge ,cornwall .
Posts: 561

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

I have a 2010 USW and the only thing that piâ€”â€”â€”â€”-s me off big time is the really bad gear select !! , Iâ€™ve even started thinking do I fit a superior box if there is one out there ?

Stew

11th Nov 2020 6:27pm

athelstan

Member Since: 06 Aug 2019
Location: Kent
Posts: 55

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Montalcino Red

When I bought my 2015 XS from a non Land Rover dealer last year I noticed a very notchy gear change on the drive home. Despite being told that the car had had a full service and MOT I decided to take the car to my independent Land Rover specialist for another complete service. I told him about the notchy change and he said that the usual remedy for this was to completely drain the gearbox and replace with Lodexol FS 75w90 Synthetic oil. However the quantity of oil was crucial and had to be exactly 2.2 litres. Apparently there is no oil level plug and the oil has to be measured beforehand.
This has cured the notchiness and I am now one happy bunny. 2015 90 XS Station Wagon Puma 2.2
2015 Morgan Plus 4

12th Nov 2020 10:22am

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8030

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

2.2 litres on an oil change, 2.4l on a new box fill. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

12th Nov 2020 2:09pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

I do not understand why the 2nd gear is not directly below the 1st. Going 1st to 2nd, gear lever has to go a bit more to the left. And Seems it is not just mine. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

12th Nov 2020 3:04pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17383

^^ Not the case on mine, 1-2, 3-4, and 5-6 are all aligned. Perhaps your housing needs adjusting.

12th Nov 2020 3:39pm

Angus_Beef

Member Since: 30 Apr 2015
Location: Oslo
Posts: 434

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

Mine also has no issues with gears being aligned Roaming around ðŸ‡³ðŸ‡´ðŸ‡¨ðŸ‡

12th Nov 2020 4:02pm

Mike_E

Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 161

Gasket wrote:
Thanks Blackwolf.

So I bought it in July and had all the transmission oils changed at a local specialist in August. It was another garage that fitted the new output shaft in October.

At least now I know that if there is an issue with the oil used that only one garage has been involved.

I've use two "specialists" up here in Aberdeenshire and both put the wrong oil in, and both over filled it. I tried to correc them on the fact the MT82 has no filler plug and both gave me the "listen pal, we've been doing this for years blah blah"

trust no-one, buy the correct oil yourself and put 2.2ltrs in, no more. then see how you get on.

Mike

12th Nov 2020 7:13pm

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