 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Power loss, sporadic, but think getting worse |
 
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 815   
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So long story here.
I got the defender about 4 months ago, this included a 800km road trip back home from the seller (worked fine, though there were a list of things that needed to be fixed, most of them identified and worked on/fixed). I have put about 3000km onto the car since I have had it. Now about 6 weeks ago I was going up a mountain road 5am in the morning at about 60-80km/h its a winding road, so changes to gears frequent 3rd to 4th and back etc. Some times when I changed up I noticed I had no power, but if I pulled my foot off the accelerator, and re-applied I got power, this was not all the time and very occasional. Also if I let off the throttle without changing gear sometimes I would think its hesitating, but that could of also been drive line shunt and I was too keen on the throttle. When I retuned back home that afternoon, it was not noticeable till I got on to the normal highway and pulling from roundabouts sometimes I would get no power in gears. But let off accelerator and re-apply I got power. About 2 weeks ago I needed to do the same trip, again I had issues sometimes, and was trying to pin down where the actual issue was, but it rained and that kind of put a stopper to my attempting to work out what the issue was as I needed to concentrate on the road more. it was still happening though. Yesterday, again I did the trip, I went up the road with no issues, but this time when I came back I noticed it a little (was coming back at 8pm at night) so instead of the coast road (many roundabouts) I decided to take the motorway (toll road) now I went thought the toll gate fine, pulling out, 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th all fine, when I put it into 5th I lost all power, the car would still rev when clutch depressed but not ref much that I noticed, like it was just not reving about 1500rpm, so I kept down shifting when the clutch was disengaged it would rev, but as soon as the drive train connected, it was like no power, so when I got down to 1st gear I stoped the car, it was idling fine but no power. I decided to turn off the car and re-start, car would not idle at all. I tried a few times it turned on started, but as soon as you touched the accelerator it died. So looking through the recovery instructions (insurance etc) decided to check where I was (about 70km from home) and thinking about the night waiting for a tow truck So before I phoned the recovery I decided to give it one more try, and this time it fired up, all fine, and pressing accelerator worked fine, so I decided to see if I could get further down the road. To my surprise it was working fine, but I knew I had another toll station to get to before home and that would require stopping, but this time no problems, did not feel any hesitation and was all fine. I have not checked the codes if any yet (will do that hopefully later today). So my thoughts at present are change fuel filter, as I can not see one on the service history, then go from there, but I understand there is no file pump in the tank (2.4) and I have to attempt to change the fuel filter without getting air into the system as this can cause issues. Is there any simple guides to doing this that anybody recommends on you tube? From that I guess I have to keep testing and seeing if its re-occuring. I know BlackWolf will be along to prob tell me its the VCV but wanted to see what others had had as the cause in these cases, as looking in the forum this does not look to be a isolated case, but many topics on the subject are not closed off (once recent was the fuel pump) but some just look to be hanging. So hoping to finish this subject and get to the bottom of the issue Car is a 2010 with 127000KM on the clock at present. thanks in advance for any suggestions on where to look, if its still doing this after the fuel filter change. Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing. 5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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26th Oct 2020 9:39am |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2109  
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Hi Race.it!
VCV is one of the more common faults that produce this kind of behavior (sporadic power loss without check engine light) I had a similar issue in the past and change the VCV solved almost all. Is quite sensible to the water ingress, so if the fuel filter has not been changed in the past is probably the final culprit of the failure. Another option could be a split turbo hose, but you will recognize the sound Also check the MAF and MAP sensors will be desirable. Hope you can solve it. Cheers! Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"  Click image to enlarge |
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26th Oct 2020 12:46pm |
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| shropshiredefender Member Since: 05 Jun 2017 Location: Shropshire Posts: 834  
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Starting simple check your coolant level.
The cylinder head temperature sensor will cut the fuel supply if it goes out of range. It will not generate a fault code, nor will the temperature gauge move. It will reset as soon as it does not sense over temperature. It feels like dirty fuel or bad injector or other fuel system fault. Hope it's simple  Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right. |
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26th Oct 2020 2:02pm |
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 815
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thanks guys, thinking order a genuine fuel filter and vcv just to change them, as looks like both can be affected by bad fuel, also they seam to be items that at least should be checked (fuel filter changed) and then if I change VCV its poss to have a base line.
Ill check coolant also, last time I checked it was fine, but no harm to re-check. Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing. 5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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26th Oct 2020 2:53pm |
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 815
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That’s what I have seen lots have found the issue in high temps I am having the issue at the lower end of 10-15 degrees. When o drove it back I crossed Madrid and that was 45 degrees in the shade and all 4 windows open as the aircon was not working (one of the first things that was fixed). Was not an issue with aircon but the valve that tells the interior heater to pass in hot water or not. Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing.
5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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26th Oct 2020 3:43pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2109
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I had the same issue with temperature but are related with the following events combined:
1.- High speed (120 KPH) in 6th gear 2.- Temperature above 30-32ºC 3.- Small slopes for long distances Finally solved partially after change several things (More efficient Intercooler & Radiator, thermostat and the fan near the intercooler). So, reading the explanation, probably VCV will be the culprit. Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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26th Oct 2020 10:06pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20292 
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If it’s any interest back when I had the old faulty VCV on mine I found the power was flat in 6th. And you often had to drop back to 5th gear instead.
Not hugely pronounced but power was low in 6th and felt like it was being pushed. After a new VCV has gone in everything has been all good and power restored. More or less at the same time though I put in a new air filter, MAF & MAP plus the VCV. Made a vast difference. After a while the cleaning of the MAP & MAF sensors I found lost effectiveness and a replacement was better. OEM Genuine parts are surprisingly reasonable, compared to LR! And for the same part. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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27th Oct 2020 12:34pm |
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 815
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thanks for the replies, I did look at the OEM parts, but thought for the base line I needed to get Genuine, from there I can go down hill
Found this fitting guide https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743584.html#743584 which looks perfect for the VCV change. From a price point its about €250 for the VCV and fuel filter posted out to me, I could of done the same for €50+ postage, next time for fuel filter etc it will be OEM, but at this time I don't know the full history of the vehicle and prefer to stick to the genuine part, as if I have to take it to a garage the first thing they will do if I have OEM parts on is prob tell me thats the issue. Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing. 5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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27th Oct 2020 1:19pm |
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| skidrov Member Since: 06 Oct 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 55  
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That guide you link is EXCELLENT - I followed it and it was a relatively easy job. Doing the VCV is all about having as much room as possible. The other additional thing I did was to undo the intercooler hose from the manifold and carefully bent it out of the way - every mm helps. And, I'd put a large rag immediately under the work area - easy to drop small bits, plenty of places to loose them in that area of the engine bay. Guess how I know.
Quick note: after fitting, it took me 3 goes to get the engine started - I am assuming this was due to the new VCV having an initial "conversation" with the ECU, and initially filling completely with fuel. It's off-putting, but ends well. And, I do hear you about non-original VCVs. I first bought an eBay cheapie and it didn't work. BUT!! I have bought some key products from BAS and have never been disappointed. I next bought via the following link - I would suggest it's a good option. https://bellautoservices.co.uk/store/defen...our-valve/ Fuel filter: plenty of good OEM items out there at a cheaper rate than original. Good luck with it all! If you keep everything scrupulously clean can't go wrong. |
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28th Oct 2020 5:48am |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 183  
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Did you manage to read the fault codes from the ECU?
I had an issue about a year ago with some symptoms (not all) similar to yours : loss of boost above 2500rpm in 5th/6th, and strangely hesitating with no clear pattern everywhere else! Fault code P0403-1B from EGR. Had to pull on the side off the road, switch off, re start and all was good again for a while. At one point the trick would not work and I had to manually clear the fault using the BAS RRC. A real pain. It did not make sense to me as I have the EGR electrically blocked through the remap. After spending hours checking the wiring loom for shorts or cuts with no results, I had the EGR changed for a brand new one, and all has been perfect since. Only explanation I see to my issue would be that the EGR was no kept closed properly and acting funny possibly due to gunk accumulated before the remap. start with what the others said above, but in case you don't come right, might be worth looking the EGR side as well. good luck /Mat |
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28th Oct 2020 10:07am |
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 815
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Was actually prob just reading them when you dropped this message Mat.
So the water at cold was slightly low (it’s quite hard to read but my socket set extension bar was useful Click image to enlarge From a full bottle that’s what I put in to fill it to the cold level. Next part was read the codes Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge From that code not an issue but the rest of the codes (don’t think i ever cleared them but this is what’s from the non tested. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge When I cleared them most of the instrument ones stayed. Also managed to change my turbo heat shield that was not bolted on, but no photo of that. Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing. 5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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28th Oct 2020 6:05pm |
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 815
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Also I guess this is the VCV
Click image to enlarge As that should be here tomorrow along with a fuel filter Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing. 5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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28th Oct 2020 6:06pm |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 731 
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Have you tried checking the main relay? The first code that can be seen is the same code I got when my truck would "hesitate" and it feels like someone just held you back for a bit. Replacing the main relay fixed things for me.
I hope this helps. |
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29th Oct 2020 2:09am |
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| Race.it Member Since: 27 Aug 2019 Location: Algeciras Posts: 815
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So checked the water level, still happens, water was about 1cm below the level when cold, and when I brought the car I never properly checked the level, just made sure there was water in the expansion tank.
So next on the list is fuel filter, just need to get chance close to a road trip to try it (problem now is they are locking us down so may not be able to test the change for a while.) Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing. 5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details |
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31st Oct 2020 3:05pm |
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