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CdnDefender

Member Since: 19 Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4

Defender riddled with issues - and dents

All,

I was hoping that my first post was on a more positive note. Alas, it is not. Our new Defender drives wonderfully, but as an ownership proposition is a total disaster. Here are excerpts from a letter that I sent to my dealer earlier today.

I was wondering if anyone had similar issues. I know others are experiencing some of these, but the aluminum foil bodywork in my opinion is completely unacceptable.

Here are the issues I have documented with the car, although I may have missed some so this is not to be construed as the complete list:

General Build Quality

1) The materials that many of the body panels are made of (I believe aluminum) are weak.

We have had a long list of vehicles that we've parked at our summer property over the years: Audi, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, Mercury, Land Rover, Honda, Jaguar and Mazda. Probably some I’ve forgotten about as well.

It is a treed property and as such twigs and small branches typically fall on our cars during windy days. We've never had anything significant fall and we've had absolutely no damage on any vehicle from anything other than some sap to clean off.

Until now.

Our Defender is RIDDLED with dents in the tops of the front fenders, the hood, and the header piece between the top of the windshield and the main part of the roof.

There are at least 8 dents that I have found so far.

During this time, neither my wife nor I have noticed any branches of significance falling or resting on the Defender.

Our previous Land Rover LR3 was parked in the same exact location for 12 summers and it's bodywork is absolutely pristine.

Keep in mind the new Defender is a car that is supposed to be ruggedized for offroad use. The fact that it can’t be parked on a treed lot is completely unacceptable in any vehicle, let alone a vehicle commanding the price that JLR is asking for the new Defender.

2) The inner fender liners are made from what appears to be fiber board. After washing them with a wand, they have turned to the consistency of carpet and have lost much of their strength.
3) When connecting the 7 pin plug from a trailer, the 7 pin cover on the Defender snapped off on the first use.

Electronics

1) In the last 5 days, we have now twice received the message “Low battery. Switch engine on or system will shut down in 3 minutes.” Neither time were we placing any kind of undue load on the battery. The first time, I was trying to figure out why the trailer lights weren’t working – it turned out it was something to do with the Defender and not the trailer. The second time we had the radio on for about 5 minutes without the engine running before receiving this message.
2) The car is constantly requiring the key to be placed against the steering column before it will start. This has happened many, many times already.
3) The keyless entry does not work properly. Often I have to remove the key out of my pocket and unlock the doors manually with the fob. Sometimes I have to press the handle button 5 or 6 times before it finally opens. There are occasional times it operates on the first or second attempt but they are few and far between.
4) Once the center screen did not start up and remained blank while the car was in operation.
5) Once the car did not recognize the key fob at all, even though I constantly was pressing the lock button. I walked from the house to right beside the car and the fob was still not recognized.
6) The global window close function, even when enabled does not work at all.
7) The radio’s RDS and HD Radio toggle buttons randomly switch back to off.

The dashboard screen displays a GPS artifact when it should display the radio icon.

Vision systems

1) Auto high beam dip, even when enabled, doesn’t work at all.
2) The displayed speed limit has been inaccurate, often mistaking a 40km/h zone for a 110km/h zone just as one example.
3) The do-not-pass display has displayed the no passing icon when in fact it was a dashed double yellow passing zone. There are also many times when the car is in a no passing zone that the do-not-pass icon fails to appear.

As I mentioned earlier, this is not meant to be an exhaustive list of all of the problems that we are experiencing with the Defender, but clearly even having a subset of these problems that I’ve listed are absolutely not acceptable for a vehicle with an out the door price of over $90,000.

It's terrible that I even need to send this out as I have been anticipating this car for well over a year now, but it is what it is . . .

Rob

19th Sep 2020 8:08pm

markb110

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2636

That is poor.

if the response from the dealer is poor, put it on YouTube.

In regards to the battery warning, my wife's Velar does the same. i think that it is just over cautious due to all the electrical systems.

When we had the Evoque with a TV, that was equally pointless as you had to keep the engine running to watch it if killing time (not driving).

If i am in the car and waiting for the missus i just listen to music on my phone and turn the volume up.

in my TD5 i just keep the stereo on.

19th Sep 2020 8:26pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3395

Can’t say I’ve ever had issues with the aluminium bodywork on any LR.

I think most LRs use the fibre wheel arch liners, they do look like carpet when wet but stay in shape and dry out fine.

The battery issue is, as said, probably LRs over sensitive system.

19th Sep 2020 8:37pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

I get the battery warning if I listen to the radio without the engine running, gave done in all my LR cars since my 2007 RRS. I’ve been told that the problem is caused by the amp in the audio system. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

19th Sep 2020 8:52pm

Jagalong

Member Since: 19 Sep 2020
Location: Kent
Posts: 4

I understand the front fenders are steel, as are the doors and the rear door. Don't know about the hood. Surprised to hear about the dents. It would have needed a high level of impact to leave a permanent impression. A number of new defenders have had their batteries replaced, which solved a lot of electrical glitches. Maybe something to do with supplies not being kept in a properly charged state during lockdown. Dealers need to up their game on pre delivery inspections and make sure all software is up to date and batteries are maintaining full voltage. New car, new factory, production stopped just as it was getting underway then restarted several months later is probably not the best start in life for any vehicle. Fully understand the frustration though when you have made such a major purchase and then get problems. Hope you get it sorted out without too much difficulty.

19th Sep 2020 10:47pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

J77 wrote:
Can’t say I’ve ever had issues with the aluminium bodywork on any LR.

Have JLR bought in the parts rather than make in house before?

20th Sep 2020 8:42am

CdnDefender

Member Since: 19 Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4

First, a good pic of her and our other Defender to keep some levity in this thread.

Click image to enlarge

Second here are some dent shots.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Our LR3 has sat in the same exact parking spot for 12 summers with no damage.

We picked this car up August 6 and so this all happened over the course of 6 weeks parked outside.

Last edited by CdnDefender on 20th Sep 2020 12:48pm. Edited 1 time in total

20th Sep 2020 12:25pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Wow, reminds me of hail stone damage.

20th Sep 2020 12:41pm

ChasingOurTrunks

Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 89

I was thinking the same thing as black wolf -- any chance you've had a hail storm come through overnight? A friend had a similar experience but by morning it was +20 and sunny so he didn't realize there was a bit of hail in the night as it had all melted and dried, and his car was similarly dented.

As for the other problems, that's pretty poor form -- I would echo what another poster said about the battery maybe needing a swap. In my jeep, which was relatively simple compared to this thing, a voltage variation beyond a certain point would make all sorts of strange things happen -- dashboard would Christmas tree, engine would intermittently start and stop, and more. All that needed doing was a new battery as the one that came with was left to sit too long on the dealer's lot.

I will be interested in your Dealer's response -- so far, I've not had the best experience with JLR dealerships and I'm in the process of buying the thing, which is when you'd think they would be the most attentive!

21st Sep 2020 10:58pm

umbertob

Member Since: 21 Jun 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 133

Re: Defender riddled with issues - and dents

CdnDefender wrote:
All,

6) The global window close function, even when enabled does not work at all.

Vision systems

1) Auto high beam dip, even when enabled, doesn’t work at all.
2) The displayed speed limit has been inaccurate, often mistaking a 40km/h zone for a 110km/h zone just as one example.
3) The do-not-pass display has displayed the no passing icon when in fact it was a dashed double yellow passing zone. There are also many times when the car is in a no passing zone that the do-not-pass icon fails to appear.

Rob

Not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but I am 99% sure that # 6 above is disabled in North America, just as it was on my LR4 (and new Defender I received 2 weeks ago.) The option to enable global close can be checked in the settings, which got me excited for a minute, but won't work here for liability reasons IIRC, only global open works (I was eventually able to enable global close on the LR4 with the IIDTool diagnostic tool, which will hopefully add support for the new Defender soon.)

Auto high beams are easy to accidentally disable by momentarily pushing the LH lever towards the manual high beams and then returning it to low beams. Does the icon in your instrument cluster look white instead of green, with "AUTO" written under the icon? That indicates AHBA is enabled. If it doesn't say AUTO and the icon is green, push and pull the lever again to re-enable. In my experience with my previous car (the LR4 had it), it's pretty accurate but can occasionally be tricked by reflections or light sources that the camera mistakes for incoming cars, so it won't always fire up the high beams when you expect it to. It would have been nice to get the more advanced Adaptive matrix-type auto high beams, but again we don't get that system here in North America, surely for some other DOT regulations Land Rover could not comply with.

Don't know what to tell you about the speed limit / Do Not Pass signs camera, it's definitely not foolproof and sometimes will mistakenly read lower speed limits of crossing side streets (or the "While Children Are Present" 25 mph speed limit near a school, even during a pandemic when all children are home 24/7, lol.) That's why the LIM speed limiter is probably a bad idea and I'll never use it, or someone may rear end me one day as the car slows down for no reason. Even the Adaptive Cruise Control / Queue Assist radar thingie, while convenient on long tips, is far from perfect and can be tricked in a variety of ways by cars cutting in front of you, sharp turns, traffic cones, strategically positioned signage, etc.

22nd Sep 2020 4:30am

CdnDefender

Member Since: 19 Sep 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4

blackwolf wrote:
Wow, reminds me of hail stone damage.

Possible but unlikely. You can't see from the images but the dents are elongated in one direction, short in the other, like the length of a branch. Also, there are places where the dents are in a line, so two dents, with the same orientation of the long side, that are a couple inches apart from each other. If you were to connect them with a line, they would match up perfectly.

There are only four panels damaged. The front fenders, the hood, the filler panel between the windshield and the main roof.

The main roof is pristine by the way, no damage at all, and we ordered it without a sunroof option so it's a big piece of sheet metal, clearly of a different gauge.

As well, there was no damage on our other car parked beside it, a Focus RS.

Finally, I've considered vandalism but it makes no sense. The damage is only on the horizontal panels, there was a bright blue car parked right next to it to attract attention, and within the immediate vicinity one neighbor has 3 BMW's, another a new Porsche Macan, and yet another an Alfa Romeo Stelvio.

Anyways, my sales person forwarded my full letter to the GM of the dealership and the Service Manager and I so far have heard nothing back whatsoever . . .

22nd Sep 2020 4:48pm

shaggydog

Member Since: 12 Aug 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 3347

1991 Defender 110 200 Tdi USW Arles Blue

Quote:
Anyways, my sales person forwarded my full letter to the GM of the dealership and the Service Manager and I so far have heard nothing back whatsoever . .

Sounds about right

Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197

Self confessed mileage hunter

23rd Sep 2020 3:07pm

Defdan

Member Since: 13 Sep 2020
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 14

Re: Defender riddled with issues - and dents

CdnDefender wrote:
All,

I was hoping that my first post was on a more positive note. Alas, it is not. Our new Defender drives wonderfully, but as an ownership proposition is a total disaster. Here are excerpts from a letter that I sent to my dealer earlier today.

I was wondering if anyone had similar issues. I know others are experiencing some of these, but the aluminum foil bodywork in my opinion is completely unacceptable.

Here are the issues I have documented with the car, although I may have missed some so this is not to be construed as the complete list:

General Build Quality

1) The materials that many of the body panels are made of (I believe aluminum) are weak.

We have had a long list of vehicles that we've parked at our summer property over the years: Audi, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, Mercury, Land Rover, Honda, Jaguar and Mazda. Probably some I’ve forgotten about as well.

It is a treed property and as such twigs and small branches typically fall on our cars during windy days. We've never had anything significant fall and we've had absolutely no damage on any vehicle from anything other than some sap to clean off.

Until now.

Our Defender is RIDDLED with dents in the tops of the front fenders, the hood, and the header piece between the top of the windshield and the main part of the roof.

There are at least 8 dents that I have found so far.

During this time, neither my wife nor I have noticed any branches of significance falling or resting on the Defender.

Our previous Land Rover LR3 was parked in the same exact location for 12 summers and it's bodywork is absolutely pristine.

Keep in mind the new Defender is a car that is supposed to be ruggedized for offroad use. The fact that it can’t be parked on a treed lot is completely unacceptable in any vehicle, let alone a vehicle commanding the price that JLR is asking for the new Defender.

2) The inner fender liners are made from what appears to be fiber board. After washing them with a wand, they have turned to the consistency of carpet and have lost much of their strength.
3) When connecting the 7 pin plug from a trailer, the 7 pin cover on the Defender snapped off on the first use.

Electronics

1) In the last 5 days, we have now twice received the message “Low battery. Switch engine on or system will shut down in 3 minutes.” Neither time were we placing any kind of undue load on the battery. The first time, I was trying to figure out why the trailer lights weren’t working – it turned out it was something to do with the Defender and not the trailer. The second time we had the radio on for about 5 minutes without the engine running before receiving this message.
2) The car is constantly requiring the key to be placed against the steering column before it will start. This has happened many, many times already.
3) The keyless entry does not work properly. Often I have to remove the key out of my pocket and unlock the doors manually with the fob. Sometimes I have to press the handle button 5 or 6 times before it finally opens. There are occasional times it operates on the first or second attempt but they are few and far between.
4) Once the center screen did not start up and remained blank while the car was in operation.
5) Once the car did not recognize the key fob at all, even though I constantly was pressing the lock button. I walked from the house to right beside the car and the fob was still not recognized.
6) The global window close function, even when enabled does not work at all.
7) The radio’s RDS and HD Radio toggle buttons randomly switch back to off.
The dashboard screen displays a GPS artifact when it should display the radio icon.

Vision systems

1) Auto high beam dip, even when enabled, doesn’t work at all.
2) The displayed speed limit has been inaccurate, often mistaking a 40km/h zone for a 110km/h zone just as one example.
3) The do-not-pass display has displayed the no passing icon when in fact it was a dashed double yellow passing zone. There are also many times when the car is in a no passing zone that the do-not-pass icon fails to appear.

As I mentioned earlier, this is not meant to be an exhaustive list of all of the problems that we are experiencing with the Defender, but clearly even having a subset of these problems that I’ve listed are absolutely not acceptable for a vehicle with an out the door price of over $90,000.

It's terrible that I even need to send this out as I have been anticipating this car for well over a year now, but it is what it is . . .

Rob

I have had the battery warning issue. The car has been back to the dealer 3 times (8 days) and is going back again next week. The dealer can't figure out the issue and said they have to get in touch with experts at LR. Another user with the issue said a new battery fixed it, but I hope the dealer considered that possibility early on. Also had the blank screen, but a software update seems to have fixed that. Otherwise collision warning no working, USB port replaced, door mirror not fitted properly, locking wheel nut key missing, wrapping left on some interior panels.

27th Sep 2020 1:38pm

defender_enthusiast

Member Since: 22 Sep 2020
Location: London
Posts: 51

Hey all,

Obviously with it raining this weekend I saw that as I was opening any of the doors water dropping down from the doors seals and landing on the seats.

Looks like it has already started staining / leaving water marks on the fabric part of the seat:

Click image to enlarge

Any ideas on how to prevent this? is this a common issue - is my car missing some sort of water run off?

4th Oct 2020 5:59pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3395

They all do that, poor design. You can get various protective coatings applied by your local detailer.

4th Oct 2020 6:04pm

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