DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - Excess Chuff? (Possible high engine crank case pressure)

↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home · FAQ · New Posts · My Posts · PMs · Search · Members · Map · Calendar · Profile · Donate · Register · Log In

Home > Puma (Tdci) > Excess Chuff? (Possible high engine crank case pressure)

Page 2 of 2

Print this entire topic ·

AndyS

Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Sumatra Black

The oil is leaking out of the plastic fuel pump cover on the front of the engine, just behind the fan and serpentine belt. But that in itself isn't the problem, it's a build up of pressure behind the cover that's venting out of that opening. If I take off the engine breather pipe and block the rocker cover hole with my thumb (with the engine running), air and oil leaks out of the fuel pump cover. So the problem is excess pressure or, a failure to vent the engine pressure correctly. One mechanic today said to look into the venting system but I don't think there's anything in that as there isn't a valve in the rocker cover.

8th Sep 2020 2:24pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

The symptoms evident in the video are fairly unmistakable, for some reason combustion gasses are escaping from the cylinders into the crankcase. There are two common causes for this, one is that the bores/pistons/piston rings are excessively worn, the other is that the injector seals are leaking. It is (as noted by earlier posters) more likely that the injector seals are leaking, and this is also a cheap and easy repair. Worn bores/pistons is neither cheap nor easy.

There is no valve in the vent pipe from the rocker cover to the inlet duct, and when the engine is running there is a partial vacuum in the inlet duct which will scavenge the gases from the rocker box and prevent a build up of pressure. When you remove the oil filler the gases will vent as you have filmed, if you take off the vent pipe and stick your thumb on the hole then the gases will vent anywhere that they can (which makes doing this not a terribly good idea).

I've never actually removed my oil filler with the engine running because it would probably look like yours and just give me one more thing to worry about, so I can't comment on the volume of yuk but it does look on the generous side. The main downside of this discharge is that it is passing through the turbo and back into the engine, and it isn't really the sort of thing you want in either place (oil, water, slightly corrosive gas, soot, etc), although there will always be a certain amount of this happening. It is the reason why several of use have fitted Provent filters on the breather circuit, which filter out the gunk from the breather gases before they get back into the inlet duct and turbo.

I would be inclined to replace the injector seals (as suggested in the earlier posts) not forgetting to replace the non-reusable stretch bolts and see how much of a difference it makes. If you are lucky it will be significant.

8th Sep 2020 2:57pm

AndyS

Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

Thanks for the reply. I don't believe it's piston rings as the engine runs fine, starts fine and makes good power and has only done 65k miles. I know that's not proof of anything but better to start with the easier possible fix. I'll order in the bits. Thanks again.

Looks like I have my first project!

8th Sep 2020 3:07pm

AndyS

Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

Hurrah, finally I've found a company who said "yeah, it's a known problem" which is a huge relief. I trust you people because you're more immersed into it than the regular mechanic but I also needed to find a mechanic who knew it was a known problem. I thought about doing it myself but by the time I order the tools it becomes marginal as to if it's financially viable (and I know you still own the tools after but some of the special spanner things are a bit unique and I've not needed a low torque torque wrench until now) and when the injectors are close to £500 each it's a bit of a worry for someone who managed to snap the bolt on a clutch puller.

Anyway, I found someone and just by way of tidying up the thread (for future searches) they're First Injection Diesel in Thornton Heath and they said to order these parts before booking it in...

LR004662 - copper washer x 4 needed
LR019168 - stretch bolt x 2 needed
LR045393 - injector O ring x 4 needed
LR004483 - Cover washer x 2 needed
LR019663 - Retainer Oil Seal x 4 needed <-- £42 each from Ford!!!

I don't know why he wanted cover washers but he asked for them (I think, hopefully I got the right part there) so he got them. Cost just shy of £320 (OMG) for the parts from LR Direct and Ford. I'll let you know how the actual repair goes. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again.

(Edit to add another part, 2nd edit for price)

Last edited by AndyS on 24th Sep 2020 2:37pm. Edited 2 times in total

9th Sep 2020 11:36am

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4660

Light at the end of the tunnel at last. Looking forward to hearing the outcome...positive I hope.

1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

9th Sep 2020 1:45pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2300

Yeah don't forget to give us a chuff comparison! > 110 XS Double Cab

9th Sep 2020 3:16pm

Fernando

Member Since: 25 Oct 2017
Location: CABA
Posts: 92

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Bonatti Grey

Hello AndyS, can you comment on how the work turned out?
I think I am with the same problem.
Regards

21st Sep 2020 10:38am

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2300

This thread led me to redo mine... Details here should you be interested

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic53240-120.html > 110 XS Double Cab

21st Sep 2020 12:18pm

AndyS

Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

Fernando wrote:
Hello AndyS, can you comment on how the work turned out?
I think I am with the same problem.
Regards

It's in today and he's called already and said I hadn't supplied the rubber gasket for the rocker cover "which is where it's actually leaking from" so sounds positive, I've added the part to the list above, just so it's a complete list for future searches. I'll let you know how it goes, hopefully it'll be done today but it depends on if he can get the bits in time.

(This problem began in this thread, a long time ago! https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic70364.html )

23rd Sep 2020 9:16am

AndyS

Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

Here it is, Chuff Update!

New video for after replacing injector oil seals (all of them; top, middle and bottom). Chap said three of the four were leaking which was creating positive engine case pressure and pushing oil out of the fuel pump cover. The difference between this and the past video (linked to below the new one) is amazing, totally obvious now I can compare the before and after.

After: https://youtu.be/RiBMOg_a6mQ

Before: https://youtu.be/22ZstZ6h3bk

There is some bad news, the seal between the injector and the rocker cover cost £42 each from Ford. I'm sure you could get them cheaper online somewhere but I didn't supply them so they had to get them ASAP to complete the job and give my car back. Total for the repair was £540 all in. Expensive for a bunch of gaskets and washers but it's the first issue in nine years so not bad really. I think the next job is to change the oil, I'm sure it's 80% carbon!

Thanks for the help everyone, you were on to it ages ago. I should have listened.

24th Sep 2020 2:28pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2300

Wow the difference is incredible!! Glad you got the outcome you wanted

> 110 XS Double Cab

24th Sep 2020 2:41pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382

That is very impressive, what a result!

24th Sep 2020 2:47pm

Fernando

Member Since: 25 Oct 2017
Location: CABA
Posts: 92

What a difference !!!! Your soul returned to your body

24th Sep 2020 3:09pm

spudfan

Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4660

Wonderfull result

. Don't you just love it when it turns out to be something simple that can be sorted very easily? This will be of benefit to others on this site in the future. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

24th Sep 2020 3:28pm

Willfindlay

Member Since: 08 Mar 2021
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 24

My 2.4 seems to be leaking in the same place, but when I take the oil filler cap off there is hardly any ‘chuff’ would this meant it could just be the cover?

2nd May 2021 1:09pm

Page 2 of 2

All times are GMT

Jump to

< Previous Topic | Next Topic >

Posting Rules

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum