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Home > General & Technical (L663) > Driven: New Defender - On & Off Road. Is it a Pretender?

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Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Welcome - and thanks for a well constructed post and thoughtful post.

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

1)The Defender with the jumpseat is big enough for a family of four and two dogs WITH space for cargo

You must pack ultra light - I can manage one passenger and a dog in my 110 when going away for just two weeks! And other people can't even get a couple of dogs in for a trip to the shops...

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

4)My motto is “keep it simple, keep it stock”.

With 85 ECUs, I think that maxim wasn't meant for the new Defender.

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

5) Published off road specifications. Can anyone tell me the wading depth of a Chevrolet Colorado? What about the roof load? This is about me as an operator knowing what the vehicles design limitations are and planning accordingly. Not having this information forces me to rely on “it should be OK” and that’s not confidence inspiring when far from civilization.

Isn't all that info only an email or Google away these days?

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

6) Global Platform - on long tour, nobody is going to doing a “ship of Theseus” on the side of the trail with all the spare parts they brought along, so global dealer and parts support is important.

How is that different from any of the main manufacturers though?
If you are in Outer Mongolia, having a main dealer in Ulaanbaatar might as well be half a world away. I've know of people phone home and get parts from UK air freighted out rather than attempt the local dealer route.

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:
The same defender I buy in Montreal is in the showroom in Mongolia,

I always thought the North American spec was a particular one all of it's one in JLR terms?

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:
Imagine losing your window glass in Botswana and having to get a new screen shipped from North America or Europe on your own. That sounds a lot trickier than stopping into a dealer and saying “new glass, please”.

And getting the reply - they're on back order and should be available some time in the next two months?

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

7) Wagon configuration. My current rig is a dual cab, and the wagon is preferable. It’s tough to fully seal the back end, so gear is always dirty. That’s fine for a weekend but for a month, it wears on a person to be dirty all the time.

I very much doubt that the cabin of any modern SUV boasts an IP rating for the sort of fine dust that gets everywhere when on gravel roads, etc. It usually comes down to the cases/bags you pack things in rather than the vehicle itself.

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

8 ) It’s got to be comfy to travel in for 1,000 Km per day.

What sort of off road road is that on?

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

But it is shaping up to be a great Touring machine for the 21st century

It's early doors - but the unibody construction seems to loose the flexibility to mod the structure of the vehicle in the way many touring vehicles are personalised.

ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

Same goes for the gearbox behaviour, which I hope was a one-off but is something I’ll be keeping an eye on.

It's been reported on this forum two, three (?) times already.

25th Aug 2020 10:23am

Naks

Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2645

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

chaps, we finally took a New Defender out this past weekend.

The driver is a novice on modern LRs, as you will see, and we were coaching him on which modes, gears, to use, etc.

It could be just me, but somehow I don't think the TR on this model is as good as the one on my RRS... if you look at what happens in the video from around 6:00 onwards, and compare that to how my RRS handled that same section two months ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvqnliHlIKc).

Ok, we have to allow for the massive rains we've had in the region, and driver skills but still, I thought the Defender with 18" BFG ATs (deflated to 2.0 bar IIRC) would walk this obstacle...

--
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged

Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ

25th Aug 2020 12:17pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

That's cracking scenery :

Click image to enlarge

and I see the issue of no space for a dog has been solved:

Click image to enlarge

Naks wrote:

It could be just me, but somehow I don't think the TR on this model is as good as the one on my RRS...

Nope ~ every video so far has shown the system really needs to be wound up before it kicks in. Whether this can be adjusted via a software update, or there's a logic to it remains to be seen. It does look brutish and you could see the driver playing by the normal rules giving up before it even got started.

25th Aug 2020 12:44pm

Naks

Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2645

^ yeah, so not just me then.

Maybe they made the traction control a bit less 'harsh' on this model?

Not sure why though, and we didn't get a chance to use the customised TR settings to try and get the TC to be more aggressive.

the slight ground clearance issue can probably be solved by fitting 20" ATs? --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged

Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ

25th Aug 2020 1:07pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

Naks wrote:
the slight ground clearance issue can probably be solved by fitting 20" ATs?

Click image to enlarge

Two things on that:

I thought if the vehicle sensed it was getting hung up then it would go into an extended ride height mode & on the roll backs, again I thought the system was equipped with a "hill hold" function?

25th Aug 2020 1:19pm

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 754

If it is like past models. It can detect when beached and go into a super extended mode. But I'm not 100% sure on all of the conditions for this to activate. It may need to be beached for 'x' time, or detect 'y' wheelslip while having less pressure on the springs or something.

25th Aug 2020 1:23pm

lohr500

Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1319

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Great video Naks and thanks for posting.

Good to see the plucky Series I (is it an 86 or an 88?) showing the younger siblings how to do it. Considering it looks to be on old style Avon Traction Mileage type tyres it did well. Shame it got stuck at the climb at 20:30. Perhaps a little more speed might just of got it over the hump, but it could also have done some damage. Still overall very impressive for what looked like a stock suspension and tyre set up.

25th Aug 2020 1:24pm

Naks

Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2645

Supacat wrote:
Two things on that:

I thought if the vehicle sensed it was getting hung up then it would go into an extended ride height mode & on the roll backs, again I thought the system was equipped with a "hill hold" function?

AFAIK, it does have the ability to go into Extended mode, but the whole vehicle was not beached - it was only scraping slightly (on the topsoil/gravel) on the driver's side. Apparently you can manually force Extended mode, but we didn't know it at the time.

As for the Hill hold, I'm not sure this model has it if it was an option? I know on my RRS there is no such feature, so I drive with left-foot braking almost all the time, not to mention having to modulate the enormous power of the 5L SCV8.

I tried to teach the driver how to do it, but it's not an easy trick to learn if you're over 60 and been driving Defenders your whole life

--
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged

Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ

25th Aug 2020 1:34pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Great video Naks, this is the first LR product I’ve owned I think where it tells you how to manually put the car into super-extended off-road height, it’s the same way as all the other air suspended cars they make, just that it’s in print now! But would 20mm approx have helped? Also 1st extended height cannot be manually selected but it can be tricked into going into it same as D3/D4/D5/All RRS’s and all L332/L405

One problem I do have at off-road height is that it is very high and it isn’t easy to judge what the front wheels are doing. I have the invisible bonnet option on mine and really while it is high definition I would rather be looking out of the windows than at a screen to see what my wheels are doing.

Click image to enlarge

I’m also not sure about the TR on mine and as mine one is a First Edition it comes with the ability to re-configure it, but just getting into the 1st TR screen via the heating controls is far too complicated compared to having the rotary selector system of the other cars with TR. I gave up using it last time I was off road because it doesn’t stay in TR menu more than about 30 secs before reverting to heater controls so I’ve been doing it myself just with low Ratio and HDC/TC/DSC as needed.
PS those of us over 60 resent that

Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

25th Aug 2020 3:35pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3411

I’m not a fan of the 360 camera stuff, I tried it on my demo and as you say you spend a lot of the time looking at the screen. Not something I’d particularly pay for as it will be optional for the next model year. At least the new Kia Sorento has the rear view camera linked to the digital dash.

The car is very high, I jumped out to take a photo and couldn’t get back in, I had to put it in access height to try and climb back in

This was the offending photo

Click image to enlarge

25th Aug 2020 6:24pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Lovely colour, that car

Were these the Wrangler Adventurer AT’s on that car J? Did it have the off-road pack?
360 cam system is great for tight parking and I haven’t kerbed a wheel yet on the low granite block wall on my drive because I can see how far off it I am if I use the offset picture mode that comes with 360 cams Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

25th Aug 2020 7:25pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3411

Yeah those are the Goodyear ATs, it had the off road pack.

25th Aug 2020 8:05pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2656

So is that what comes as the ‘off road tyres’ option?

I’ve just placed an order for a base spec and the only things I’ve added are the towbar, off road tyres, centre console and the colour. Sadly the dealer didn’t have any such cars in stock, the one I drove was a first edition.

25th Aug 2020 8:17pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3411

I believe that’s the tyres you’ll get.

25th Aug 2020 8:31pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Has the factory started building the base models yet? Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

25th Aug 2020 9:21pm

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