 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > New Defender vs G Wagen off road video |
 
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753  
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But the G has 3 locking diffs to Defenders single one, also I don’t think he set up the configuration that is possible in the Defender - he could have selected zero wheel spin in the menus, don’t knit if it would have helped much but it would have at least stopped all the spin.
Just home from getting mine a bit dirty in the forests of Central Scotland. I bet you won’t find many New G-Wagen owners doing any off-road stuff in their £96,500 base model priced G-Wagen Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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26th Jul 2020 4:32pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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But that was JLR's choice ~ isn't their system supposed to be better/best? Or was their halo off road vehicle not worth the added cost of two actual locking diffs (which the owner would have picked the cost for, especially if on the options list). Either it is the most capable 4x4 they could have made, or it isn't? I'd also question whether the Defender driver can actually "lock" the centre diff or it just limits slip in a range up to 100%.  Click image to enlarge It certainly was obvious again in that video that the front and rear axles were turning at different speeds, so traction was being lost. How do you take wheelspin out completely if this is your option screen: Click image to enlarge Does the middle option mean less than the less option? And if it does shouldn't it be on the far left of the screen to follow the layout form of the other options? It all looks clumsy ~ 4x4 designed by software engineers who have never got their hush puppies muddy. What are your thoughts on why the Defender failed to pull the G Wagen up the hill? |
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26th Jul 2020 5:25pm |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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100% locking diffs are not very friendly to the half shafts, especially in independent suspension vehicles. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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26th Jul 2020 6:56pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3394 
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According to this it can be locked
Click image to enlarge |
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26th Jul 2020 6:57pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Isn't that screen only if you have the e diff fitted in the rear; which begs the question why the wording is different on the screen for vehicles without it?
In the document that image is taken from it describes both diffs as "slip limited": Click image to enlarge There's also the dashboard screens which display the varying level of lock of each diff whilst central icon is a locked padlock? Click image to enlarge The truth must lie in the way it limits wheelspin ~ if it does this by applying the brakes, either to a wheel or to a whole axle, then it cannot be locked for any duration of time, otherwise as the vehicle moved one or more wheels would be skidding along rather than rotating. It's rather different to having a mechanical lock in the differential itself. I'm thinking that nothing is ever actually locked, just when you brake the wheel/axle that is spinning faster it transfers the power to the opposite wheel/axle and then balances wheelspin via sensor measurement and multiple braking efforts. Or have I missed something? Last edited by Supacat on 26th Jul 2020 7:53pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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26th Jul 2020 7:01pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2630  
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Doesn't seem that long ago that JLR added an option to remove (or not include) the transfer box for the RRS.
As so many vehicles are bought in the UK on PCP contracts therefore the owners wont or don't know how to use it the question is will JLR have an option in the future to remove the Defenders transfer box to reduce vehicle cost / weight / owners monthly finance costs Guess we will have to wait and see....but i would not be surprised |
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26th Jul 2020 7:24pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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How? He tried several TR programmes which by this graphic looks to max out the diff control: Click image to enlarge But the system is reactive, so needs wheelspin to mimic the actions of a true locked differential and only for a nano second at a time. I think this explains why it gets though obstacles but makes the driver look like they are a little clumsy in doing so. |
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26th Jul 2020 7:28pm |
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| LoveTheMud Member Since: 19 Feb 2015 Location: Weybridge Surrey & Pontefract West Yorkshire Posts: 411 
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Well all I can say is.... I want a G-Wag not a Land wag. I'll keep my current and get the Grenadier over the new Land Rover SUV thanks... That was a very disappointing video.
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26th Jul 2020 7:36pm |
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| bear100 Member Since: 22 Mar 2010 Location: South Wales Posts: 1914  
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It was a hard watch that review apart from it being in Spanish I really wanted and expected the Defender to totally out perform the G wagon, the new Defender has totally grown on me lately, JLR have actually made it as close as they can to the original taking into account all of the modern tech. Having bad thoughts about popping to the dealer this week
They say the FFRR is the best off road due to its computer aided driver assistance so I assumed the defender would have had that and more. I wonder how my Puma would have performed on the same test? I doubt it won’t be long before a test between new and old will be done. 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8 2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI 2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone) 2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone) 1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone) 1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone) 1994 discovery 300tdi (gone) 90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone) Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone) |
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26th Jul 2020 7:42pm |
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| diesel_jim Member Since: 13 Oct 2008 Location: hiding Posts: 6092 
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HAve you seen the size of G-wagen shafts? they're huge.... designed to have a locking diff at the ends of them. I can't believe all the faffing about in menus and settings to get some kind of off road traction aid on the new Defender.... the G has 3 buttons.... middle, rear and front.... easy.
Not all G's are this price (although you need to buy from outside the UK).... the professional range are a lot cheaper, and more utilitarian too. |
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26th Jul 2020 7:50pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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26th Jul 2020 7:57pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Yes ~ sometimes less is more. |
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26th Jul 2020 8:00pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3394
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I’m just baffled why it appears to struggle, my D3,4s and 5s all have the same system but I’d be confident they’d tackle it better.
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26th Jul 2020 8:22pm |
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| LoveTheMud Member Since: 19 Feb 2015 Location: Weybridge Surrey & Pontefract West Yorkshire Posts: 411
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I read somewhere to "never be brand loyal, only be product loyal" if the product changes, as it has here, it is no longer the product you were loyal to.
Land rover only care about profit, not about satisfying the enthusiast. Its going to do more than most will need it to do, and that's just the point, its like the latest android phone over the old one, nothing really changes but the marketing bill is as big as the R&D budget... Is it more practical than a new discovery, second hand, with all the warranties in the world? No... so buy a second hand disco, but always get all the independent warranties you can buy... |
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26th Jul 2020 8:31pm |
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