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Mini Landie



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
Blown head gasket?
I have a '53 plate 90 hardtop with a 15p engine, and I think the head gasket may have failed.

I was driving around Saturday and Sunday before last absolutely fine. Drove to work on Monday about 20 miles, no issues. Drove up the road (2-3 miles or so) to get some lunch and I noticed it wouldn't pick up power at all in fifth, around 30-35mph. So at the risk of breaking down or something bad happening, I kept my pedal where it was. It seemed to be relatively happy when the pedal was steady.

On the way back to work, I had the same problem. I also noticed the odd puff of black smoke and white smoke out of the exhaust. Now I'm really concerned...

Pull up at my work and push on the throttle a bit, and I'm getting far more white smoke than black smoke.

I went back to work and finished about 3.5 hours later and again, the same issue. Rough idle, very rough on the throttle and a LOT of white smoke (no real black smoke this time).

The smoke seems to have a slight tint of sweetness to it, which tells me it could be coolant. I also seemed to have lost some coolant.

The EGR is a bit stiff but is wide open.

I've been having some assistance from a fellow Landy lover from here who's local to me, and I'm just going to copy & paste a post he made on a TD5 Facebook page:

"Has been running fine, then one day he started and it’s puffing white haze out the exhaust, and isn’t revving up properly.
Have checked and the EGR isn’t stuck, it’s wide open... bypassed air intake and inter cooler and still running rough and smokey.
Gets some black smoke occasionally too.
Starts up fine.
Nanocom not revealed anything, slightly mid balance would highlight something on cyl3, I think it hit +14 with all other cylinders around +/-7 at worst.
Fuel pump priming and working fine at rear. No wooshing, sloshing or leaks from fuel pressure regulator. Injector harness seems clean externally to engine, have not removed rocker cover yet. Has not overheated and no MIL lamp illuminated (tested mil lamp and temp gauge with Nano too)
Thinks it may have used a bit of coolant but could be coincidence."


With the hint of sweetness in the smoke and the slight loss of coolant, I'm thinking the head gasket could be blown.

What are your thoughts? Anything in particular I should try before I start taking the head off?

I do have a compression tester but I've only ever used it on a classic Mini engine which of course uses spark plugs - not sure if it would work on a diesel engine?

Note: I have blown a gasket AND cracked a cylinder in the Mini before, so gasket replacement wouldn't be new to me! However with the Mini, getting the head skimmed was quite easily an option. I'm reading mixed messages about skimming TD5 heads as there isn't much room to play with.
Post #837587 16th Jun 2020 5:40pm
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Hufflepuff



Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 727

England 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Tonga Green
I'd be a little surprised if it was the head gasket, as I understand them to be pretty reliable on the 15p engine.

I wonder if it might be the water cooler on the EGR system at the front of the engine, which has corroded and allowing water into the exhaust that way? If its letting water into the cylinders via the intake, it might explain the rough running and white smoke.

Is there any evidence from the water bottle of abnormal pressurisation? 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW
Post #837610 16th Jun 2020 6:51pm
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Silvertoolbox



Member Since: 13 Oct 2018
Location: Westhill
Posts: 43

United Kingdom 
Skimming head, according to the manual...no.
Did mine (had it done) and seems to have worked +25k miles.
Replaced the plastic head locating dowels with steel.
Mine had a crack in an exhaust port so different symptoms - ran ok but just blew out the coolant if revved.
Hope it works out... Ex scottish & southern 110 Td5 van (shed) with PTO driven winch (L-R special vehicles)
Before that, Disco 1, Freelander 1, 26105382 80" with a 1600cc (not much slower)
Post #837612 16th Jun 2020 6:56pm
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5711

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver
Have you put a new and quality fuel filter on it recently?
Post #837630 16th Jun 2020 8:02pm
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Mini Landie



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
Hufflepuff wrote:
I'd be a little surprised if it was the head gasket, as I understand them to be pretty reliable on the 15p engine.

I wonder if it might be the water cooler on the EGR system at the front of the engine, which has corroded and allowing water into the exhaust that way? If its letting water into the cylinders via the intake, it might explain the rough running and white smoke.

Is there any evidence from the water bottle of abnormal pressurisation?


I’ll take some photos tomorrow of the engine bay. There did appear to be some seepage near the EGR/intercooler hose. Nothing odd that I could see around the coolant reservoir.

@landyandy: I haven’t put a new fuel filter on in the last 11 months that I’ve owned the vehicle. It was serviced the day I collected it. I do have a service kit on hand though (initially ready for the twelfth month of ownership but doing it a month early couldn’t hurt).
Post #837660 16th Jun 2020 9:08pm
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DG123



Member Since: 29 Aug 2015
Location: North West
Posts: 133

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
My 15p 2003 TD5 head went with similar symptoms; don’t think it’s particularly rare. It had moved on the plastic spigots and was leaking around cyls 2 & 3 if I remember. The exhaust manifold had been leaking a few thousand miles before and was badly warped so I don’t know if there may have been some overheating.

Had a slight skim, new gasket and metal spigots; was fine for another 40K till I got rid. 2012 110 XS SW Orkney Grey
2003 D2 Td5 Black [SOLD]
Post #837665 16th Jun 2020 9:16pm
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5711

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver
Are sure you had a new fuel filter in the purchase service? Many don’t bother.

I would start with that as it’s cheap, and easy (assume you know how. If not just ask)

The 15p engines don’t tend to suffer head gasket failure much, and I thought it was the 10p engines had the plastic locating dowls and they were metal on the 15p?
Post #837677 16th Jun 2020 9:59pm
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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
DG123 wrote:
My 15p 2003 TD5 head went with similar symptoms; don’t think it’s particularly rare. It had moved on the plastic spigots and was leaking around cyls 2 & 3 if I remember. The exhaust manifold had been leaking a few thousand miles before and was badly warped so I don’t know if there may have been some overheating.

Had a slight skim, new gasket and metal spigots; was fine for another 40K till I got rid.

I'm his mate helping out - interesting yours went between 2&3, out of interest did diagnostic give you much cylinder misbalance in that scenario? Insta: @thebenjordan4x4
Post #837744 17th Jun 2020 10:04am
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Mini Landie



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
landy andy wrote:
Are sure you had a new fuel filter in the purchase service? Many don’t bother.

I would start with that as it’s cheap, and easy (assume you know how. If not just ask)

The 15p engines don’t tend to suffer head gasket failure much, and I thought it was the 10p engines had the plastic locating dowls and they were metal on the 15p?


Hmm I'm not too sure. I'd have to dig out the invoices... wherever they are!

Not the cleanest engine bay, I'll admit!


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The blackness on the underside of the EGR-intercooler (?) hose is a cause for concern for me. Perhaps my issue lies around here?
Post #837868 17th Jun 2020 5:56pm
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Procta



Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 5175

United Kingdom 
Mini Landie if it was the head gasket your temp would rise quite quickly with rock solid pipes. and you would be topping up the coolant, left right and centre. Also you would find that you would be getting mayo around the dipstick and where you would top you oil. That's going from my K series days, when the gasket finally went, it was like a kettle boiling sort of speak, and it chucked the water on the through the weakest part of the coolant system.
So check the dip stick and the oil filler cap before you fire the engine over. Thumbs Up
Also fire the engine over too, and lightly squeeze the pipes as its warming up, that could tell you where the problem is. My K series had gone on the exhaust side. Thumbs Up
if you are getting mayno around the dipstick and oil filler cap is, then the head gasket has gone.


I have had EGR problems too with my 300, the motor was not really keen on moving. As there was a leak on the intercooler side of things.
Also buy the blanking plates for the EGR and bin the system right off. Thumbs Up In fact i would do that anyway, the EGR causes more sodding problems than anything else. I ditched the lot on the 300 TDI and i only have the coolers on the TD5, since i binned off the valve last year. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!
Post #838186 19th Jun 2020 2:08am
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
Check for oil in the red ecu plug and maybe the injector seals starting to let go? Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html
Post #838227 19th Jun 2020 8:40am
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Mini Landie



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
Well it seems to have been the EGR cooler. I've purchased the X8R kit with the three blanking plates but have only used one so far as I can't seem to get the Censored exhaust manifold end off due to lack of clearance for my tools.

I went for a drive around the block and noticed some small plumes of white smoke but nothing as excessive as it was. This was shortly into the drive, so I turned around in disappointment, but on the way back there appeared to be no more white smoke... so I carried on driving for another couple of miles around the block and still no white smoke! There was the odd puff of black smoke on heavy accelerating but nothing I don't think I need to be concerned about *touch wood*.

The temp needle got to about 1/3 - 1/2 and stayed there.

I also replaced the fuel injector loom with a used but good one and the fuel filter & air filter with new ones.

I'm not too sure which single item solved the issue but I'm inclined to say the EGR blanking. I'll take the thing for a test drive at the weekend and see how it goes, but fingers crossed!
Post #839507 24th Jun 2020 8:47pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8035

 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Procta wrote:
Mini Landie if it was the head gasket your temp would rise quite quickly with rock solid pipes. and you would be topping up the coolant, left right and centre. Also you would find that you would be getting mayo around the dipstick and where you would top you oil.


for info not necessarily,

temp gauge may not move over normal positioning but yes you would get rock hard pipes very quickly.

you also dont always get contamination of the oil. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop
Post #839575 25th Jun 2020 8:22am
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Huttopia



Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1972

United Kingdom 
That engine bay is going to give some folk on here sleepless nights..... Laughing
Post #839616 25th Jun 2020 10:59am
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Mini Landie



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
You should see the bottom of my air filter housing... Shocked

Got a little wet inside the cab as well. Laughing


Click image to enlarge
Post #839646 25th Jun 2020 1:51pm
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