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MuddyMarky

Member Since: 01 Feb 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 548

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Hartwell L/R Oxford - Not good.

Well, I won't be using them for anything again, with the exception (maybe) of parts. Not fitting of parts, just buying them. The parts guys there are good fellas.

As for the sales people......Let me take you back. I went to have a little look at (now my) a nice looking Stornoway DC pick up. Sales lady was outside doing something else to another vehicle, asked if I was OK. I said, yes, was interested in this vehicle, and could we have a chat about some figures please? First question she asked me (before we went indoors)? : "How serious are you?" (!!!) I explained that I'd purchased a 6 month old 90 XS from them a year earlier, and if they could have the DC ready for the end of the week, I could be quite serious. She invited me to her desk.

Discussed figures between myself, her & some sales manager type, and informed them that the £10,000 offered for my p/x (2005 D3 HSE, 81k, FSH) wasn't enough and that I'd sell it privately. He attempted to give me a bit of the hard sell with "we really don't want you to miss out on this one/leave us a deposit to take it off sale" etc etc. When I made it clear that I wasn't going to be doing that, I was pretty much dismissed. He was a little off hand with em then when I mentioned that they were hardly rare vehicles, and that if I missed that one due to it being sold, I'd just go and get one elsewhere. I then left following a partly missed hand shake with him as he thrust his hand toward me in a half hearted attempt.

Skip on a few days (5 or 6 actually), my D3 was sold privately for a shade under £16k. Was trying to think what to do, as I'd left Hartwells feeling pretty

about the whole thing - not how I wanted to feel when spending £26,000 on a new (well, 99 miles) vehicle.

Aforementioned sales lady telephoned me a couple of days later on from that point, to 'find out' how I was getting on with my D3. Informed her of my success, and also of my hesitancy in contacting them, as I was unsure how valued I'd be as a customer (not what you'd describe as best service during the 90 purchase year earlier, either). I also mentiond that another dealer (Lancaster, I think) had a DC which I was considering buying instead. She was surprised to hear about it, and apologised, said she'd let him know etc etc. 10 minutes after that conversation, phone rings again and it's the other guy (sales manager, poss). Nice as pie, had a chat, couldn't be more pleasant, really concerned that I felt that way etc. I made an appointment to go back and see them.

Anyway, went ahead with a deal, which was an agreed price for the DC, including: rubber mats, bumper end caps, tank of diesel & 12 months road tax. Not a huge ask, I know, but all agreed to, etc. After each item, it was answered with an "OK", when I got to the "12 months road tax", the final reply was "no problem, it's taxed". Picked the car up, no problems since (had to wait for end caps, but no worries).

This weekend (I know, observant, eh) I was stood looking at the front of the vehicle (taking a break from the underseal job) and noticed the tax disc runs out end of 02/12. Odd, I thought.....took a second to register, but then realised that I'd actually gotten 7 months tax, not the 12. "Give them a ring" I thought. So, today had a phone chat with them. The reply? "Well, we said it was taxed", I suggested that when I asked for 12 months tax and they said, no problem, its taxed, they may have mentioned it only had just over half what I wanted. "What do you want us to do about it now then?" was the reply. I said, what do you suggest, as its not necessarily the money (about £100 worth for 5 months), but the principle, especially how the sale originally started off. She said "Well, I definately said it was taxed when we spoke, I remember it". Tried to explain again, that its not what I asked for. Nothing. Gave me the brush off, and really couldn't care less. I explained that I felt that I'd been cheated slightly, and that my feeling was to try and get every little thing possible out of the customer. Her only reply was "we don't try and make our customers feel like that, and thats not our policy". I said maybe not, but thats how I feel....her reply...."I've never had anyone tell us that before"

When I explained that I was now pleased that I hadnt yet completed the feedback form for my 'overall experience', she said she'd have a word with her sales manager to expect my feedback soon then.

Nothing else at all. Not even an apology.

For a vehicle I've become quickly attached to, I'm really disappointed with them. I'm certainly not going there for any service work/warranty work etc. As I mentioned above though, the parts guys are really helpful/reliable etc.

Sorry, rant (ish) over, but wanted to let the general population know

Mark
2011 110 XS DC
Stornoway Grey

8th Aug 2011 7:25pm

Paul_1978

Member Since: 08 Nov 2009
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 384

Knock up a quick letter to dealer principle (they call them that as they have people with the minds of children under their management) with what you have put on this site and expect a phone call, never a letter in my experience.

Tell them your dissatisfaction, worked for me twice in the past with volvo.

8th Aug 2011 7:51pm

MuddyMarky

Member Since: 01 Feb 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 548

I think I ought to write a letter really, especially with my experience buying the earlier Defender too. You just lose all faith that anyone there will give a monkey's now they've sold the car.......

When you say it 'worked for you', what did you manage to get done? Mark
2011 110 XS DC
Stornoway Grey

8th Aug 2011 9:43pm

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

I wonder if all the old staff from Westover Land Rover in Christchurch Dorset have been relocated to Hartwells? Sounds similar. Then again Westover have experienced a total attitude adjustment of late and were really helpful recently on my last visit! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

9th Aug 2011 7:00am

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3149

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

Didn't Jeremy Clarkson publish a big rant about these lot not long ago?

When I was looking into getting a 110, I happened to be in the area in my IIA, so went in for a chat. Hartwells bloke eventually tells me a few fibs, along the lines of 1) I couldn't have a brochure, they are all online 2) I can't have a pricelist, they are all online and 3) I couldn't spec up a base-spec 110, if I wanted aircon etc I would have no choice but to buy an XS spec, which we all know is wrong. He did eventually give me a pricelist he printed off for me. By the end it was a matter of "come back when you have the money". Not impressed.

They never offered us a drink, or a test drive, or even to look any of the Defenders they had there even though I told them I have never driven a Puma before that point.

We eventually got one from Lookers Park Royal and have been really happy with them, they even got me the non-existant base spec with add-ons!

Like the OP says, I might consider them for parts purchases but that would be all. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

10th Aug 2011 4:00pm

Green Machine

Member Since: 19 Nov 2010
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1226

Sadly this is nothing new, and not just with Land Rover. I am yet to find a main dealer under any manufacturer who provides the level of service I would expect to receive. Went to have a look at an Audi the other day and the experience was much the same. Told the salesman I intended to sell my car (Golf) privately, but he still insisted on going and looking at it and giving me a price for p/x, which, incidentally, was a complete joke as I knew it would be. He then continued to tell me that the price I wanted for it was ridiculous and that a VW dealer wouldn't be trying to sell it for that. I actually got a call from a lady that same afternoon offering me the full asking price for the Golf. Not so ridiculous after all. I didn't sell in the end, decided to hold on to it as I can't find anything I'd rather have in the price bracket.

But I have had many of the same issues with VW in the past, they just couldn't care less. And when you do contact someone at a higher level, you get the usual placatory response, apology and offer of a free service or whatever, but it doesn't really make any difference. At the end of the day, main dealers view themselves as indestructible - assuming that there will always be people in their area wanting to buy a new car and have it serviced by them, the main dealer. If my local Land Rover independent did a crap job, I would go and tell everyone I know, as well as on here that they were useless, and those people probably would think twice about using them again. If I go and tell people that my local Land Rover main dealer is rubbish, they will probably say 'well yes, but so are all the others, so I might as well still go there'. I know this seems like a crazy attitude, but I know lots of people who have had really bad experiences with main dealers, but still continue to use them because they are the local main dealer! Madness.

In my opinion, the fundamental issue is that an independent garage has to earn it's reputation, which can be destroyed almost overnight. A main dealer has few such worries, which results in the rubbish customer service that we are all so familiar with.

Just my thoughts. 2005 Td5 | 90 Station Wagon | Tonga Green

10th Aug 2011 6:29pm

MuddyMarky

Member Since: 01 Feb 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 548

I have to say, I was actually offered a drink

That aside, I would implore people not to go here for anything, except as mentioned above. I didn't hear/read about Clarkson ranting about them, but I think the people working there need to remember that they work for a garage. Nothing more, nothing less. There is absolutely nothing wrong it that, but I can't for the life of me understand why they have this over-inflated image of themselves. They are afterall only selling the cars, not buying them themselves, it appears......wonder why? Probably know what service they'd get!

PLEASE go there with caution chaps! Mark
2011 110 XS DC
Stornoway Grey

10th Aug 2011 7:39pm

xatzhs

Member Since: 12 Dec 2010
Location: Northumberland & Down South
Posts: 258

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

I think it is this article. He doesn't sound too happy... I don't know about you though, but especially if the property of a celebrity was under my care I'd take double the care over it.

Still... you can't say they're biased!

Quote:
I recently took my Range Rover in for a service. Instead of making sure it was screwed together properly and changing the oil - which is what I'd expected them to do - they ruined it and sent it back, a day later than promised with a bill for six-hundred-and-something quid, and a note saying that they needed to order parts for all the jobs that needed doing.

As a result, I shall not be troubling Hartwell Land Rover of Oxford ever again. When it comes to servicing cars, my dog would make a better job. And that's where you come in.

It's not especially hard to change the oil, fit new spark plugs and new brake pads. I could do it. Except for the pads, obviously. And maybe the oil. I usually put it into the wrong place and drive along with a very smeary windscreen for a while. Or lots of smoke coming out of the exhaust. Spark plugs are tricky too.

But Richard Hammond could certainly do it, and he's an imbecile. James would be alright too, but obviously, you'd be without your car for about 16 years. And that takes me back to my original point. If you are even vaguely practical, you could tool around Oxfordshire, where there are many Range Rovers, and scoop up all the business that Hartwell doesn't seem to want.

10th Aug 2011 10:21pm

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3149

That would be the one.

I half-giggle every time I go past them and think about how much dosh they never got off me...oh well! 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

11th Aug 2011 6:22am

MuddyMarky

Member Since: 01 Feb 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 548

Well, they won't be getting any more money from me either! I chuckle aswell, when I see they still have the other DC on the forecourt (remember he was concerned that I'd lose mine if I wasn't quick).

I wonder what I could do to 'spread the word'? Letter to the local paper's motoring section, maybe.....can I be bothered really though, thats the thing (ie would it actually have any impact?). Just don't want anyone else to spend their hard-earned in the place!

Maybe I should just let it go, eh? Mark
2011 110 XS DC
Stornoway Grey

11th Aug 2011 8:49am

party monkey

Member Since: 31 Dec 2010
Location: Oxon.
Posts: 1311

2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Cairns Blue

Never used them personally but based simply on my colleagues' experiences with them over the last couple of years, I never will.....and neither does he any more!

@MuddyMarky ..... maybe Clarkson got an extra tracker he's not aware of eh ?

Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless.

11th Aug 2011 11:12am

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

MuddyMarky wrote:
Maybe I should just let it go, eh?

(K9F gets out his wooden spoon).....

Let it go? No chance.....E-mail them the link from this thread and show them the disdain at their p155 poor level of customer service! Better still go above them and send it to Land Rover Customer Services! "Don't get mad! Get even, with the application of a multiplication factor of 10!" You know you reallty want to! Double dare you!

If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

11th Aug 2011 12:44pm

pom

Member Since: 01 Jun 2010
Location: Worcester
Posts: 1343

it really amazes me these dealers, for the sake of £100 they are willing to blow off a customer guaranteeing that they will never get his or anyone he knows custom.

What the forum needs is a contact at LR QA department responsible for auditing the dealers. Must be someone on the forum who works for LR and has an internal directory ?

Pom

11th Aug 2011 2:36pm

haworthj

Member Since: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Sussex
Posts: 178

Harwoods, my local dealers are great, so i feel lucky reading all these tales of woe. But i recently was at Toyota looking at a new car for my wife. The sales child told me that it had 150 bhp and did 130mph top speed. I got back home and had a look at Toyota's website. Guess what? 130bhp, and 112 mph. Just a bunch of liars. His pitch to me surely was illegal?

11th Aug 2011 2:46pm

MuddyMarky

Member Since: 01 Feb 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 548

I know, Pom! Thats what I mean. I did tell thm it wasn't actually the money, but the principle of the whole thing.

If they'd thought about it, I would've been completely happy if the reply had been along the lines of: "We're really sorry it's happened/misundertanding/whatever, how about you call in when your current tax disc is due to expire and we'll renew it for 6 months for you". Or, "our apologies, we'll send you a voucher/cheque for £100". A voucher wouldn't cost them anywhere near £100!

Oh well, as you say, they've obviously got more customers than they need, eh?

Mal, I'm tempted to go to town and email this thread here there & everwhere. I'll see how busy I am when I finish work for the week.......anyone got any contacts that might be interested?

Mark
2011 110 XS DC
Stornoway Grey

11th Aug 2011 2:48pm

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