 | Home > Off Topic > JLR’s Financial woes laid bare |
 
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| tookaphotoof Member Since: 18 Mar 2013 Location: dordrecht Posts: 1279   
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Tim, sorry to say but looking at the build quality of my Defenders I might be glad they took production away from UK.
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8th Apr 2020 2:08pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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JLR have said this is a 100k vehicles per annum model. 17% of that is 17,000. Which is just about 100% of the annual sales of the old model. That clearly doesn't make sense.  Last edited by Supacat on 8th Apr 2020 6:40pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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8th Apr 2020 4:09pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17603 
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The old mini and the new mini essentially do the same job. The old Defender and the new Defender do not, and therein lies the difference.
Is there anyone who still thinks the new Defender was ever intended to be a replacement for the old? It was never going to be, which I lament but accept. It's been clear for 10 years that Defender was being killed off in all but name. I believe there are many who think it was the wrong decision, but that won't change it. New Def will sell like hot cakes to the affluent SUV-owning sector (the same lot who drove classic Defender prices sky-high towards the end). The work truck sector will go elsewhere. It is what it is. |
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8th Apr 2020 5:01pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5878  
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Blackwolf, I’m not sure I agree that the New Defender will sell like hot cakes to the affluent SUV crowd, as per my post. I think it will initially, to the super cool, front of the pack crowd, but would someone driving anyone of the following cars be drawn away, and if so, why?
It’s not as fast as the list below, as good on the road, as cheap, as practical (I appreciate that is subjective) in cities or on the school run, as luxurious and (potentially) as reliable. Merc M Class BMW X series Audi Q Series Lexus RX series Etc Nor is it as hyper luxurious or powerful as the following SUVs: Bentley Roller Lambo Aston Martin Etc Nor does it give as much for as little as US built cars do to the American SUV market: Lincoln Continental Dodge Durango Chevy Tahoe Etc Nor is it as cheap as the following Japanese SUVs: Toyota LandCruiser Nissan X-trail Subaru Forester Etc And whilst clearly capable off road, it’s not as cheap as other go-anywhere 4x4s: Hilux Rubicon Jimney 4Runner Etc And for Green Oval fans, it’s doesn’t have the pace/class/luxury/price-value of others in their stable: RR RRS Disco Velar Evoque So, that’s the market it has to contend with and as far as I can see, it doesn’t fit into any of them 100%. It will be always listed as ‘worth considering’ afterthought in a journalists article on the class leading SUV in each category I’ve listed above. It will never be the class leader, as there’ll always be a caveat (too big, too expensive, unreliable, no PHEV option, not fast enough, heavy handling, not luxurious enough). At least our Def had a purpose and (mostly) achieved that purpose of being a multi-functioning, extremely capable off road platform. And even if pricey, it remained affordable for most people. I genuinely think this will fall between the cracks. Mr and Mrs Jones from SW London need a car for the school run and safe for kids: Disco/X5/X-trail. Mr and Mrs Jones from Mid-west America need an all bells and whistles SUV for not much money: Chevy something-or-other Mr Jones, overlander: Land cruiser or secondhand Defender Mr Jones, cool wealthy urbanite, looking to pimp something up: Merc/Audi/RRS Mr Jones, retired, super wealthy company director looking for something to cruise to his villa in Tuscany: Roller/RR Mr Al-Jones from Dubai, looking to wrap an SUV in gold, Lambo, RRS or Bentley Mr Jones, sheep farmer: Hilux Mrs Jones, equestrian with horse box: landcruiser or second hand Defender Jones (too cool for a title as he’s an influencer on Instagram): New Defender. For six months, then finds it too big, too slow, too cumbersome and realises he’s not actually Bear Grylls and will never push the Defdner to the limit of what it can actually do. I can’t see the new Def poaching that many people from those categories. Just my opinion.....  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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11th Apr 2020 9:48am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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New Defender will not sell like hot cakes for 3 reasons:
A) JLR’s poor reliablity record for vehicles over 3 years old - they languish at the bottom of all the consumer surveys year in year out and even the fashionistas who buy new models because they are new models not because they use them for what they can do are aware of the reflected “glory” of the older cars being the most unreliable cars on the road - not being aware that JLR have actually made quite a few advances in this area because it never gets the publicity for reliablity of newer cars. JLR’s attitude to customers buying cars >3 years old is also dire - basically they just don’t care B) Security - JLR models are very desirable despite the above because they are very expensive to buy regardless of whether you buy them outright or on finance plans but they are right at the top of the most stolen cars lists and anyone who lives in an urban area will look for insurance quotes and find the cars are almost uninsurable in some upmarket/ desirable leafy postcodes without expensive after-market security systems being fitted over and above the supposedly fool proof latest system currently being fitted and even recently delivered cars are still being stolen using the old tried and tested methods of cloning electronic keys C) Why would anyone buy a New Defender 110 with 7 seats and engines with dire fuel economy when you can buy the new BMW X5 PHEV that can do >50 miles in pure electric mode, will seat 7 adults AND luggage inside, gets you reduced VED and BIK and has a lovely 3.0V6 Turbo Petrol for when you cannot waft around in electric powered silent luxury for LESS money Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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11th Apr 2020 10:32am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Reading about JLR wanting a Govt loan of anywhere between 1 and 2 billion and then looking across the channel to Macron's aid package for the French car industry:
"The French government announced an 8 billion euros ($8.8 billion) aid package to help the auto industry recover from the coronavirus crisis" https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/fra...-worth-88b Interesting to read the French Govt has "warned that it was contingent on “repatriating” production from overseas.". Could the UK Govt do similar? Also, a potential €12,000 going to car buyers who trade in an old ICE vehicle and go electric. Could we do something similar to "prime the pumps" here rather than just give the money directly to the manufacturers? |
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31st May 2020 5:51am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20619
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Macron is very unpopular, he’s lost his majority in govt. We don’t follow things the French do, if anything they follow us. Chillin In The Backwoods🇬🇧🇺🇸
⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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31st May 2020 2:28pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2656  
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That could be the end of Vauxhall in the UK then...….Macron giving a another kicking to pretend he is the boss following Brexit and nothing to do with virus..... |
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31st May 2020 7:39pm |
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| discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2535 
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Also consider that Nissan have announced this week that they will concentrate on the Asian, Pacific and American markets and leave European sales to their partners Renault. Where does that leave Nissan's operation in Sunderland? Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8 |
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31st May 2020 8:12pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2188 
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They have announced Sunderland as being central to their ops on-going.........potentially also making some Renault stuff
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/a...-jobs.html |
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31st May 2020 8:15pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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So it seems an open secret that JLR are one of six companies looking for Govt. money. It's been quiet on this front since May, but maybe next week we will find out if we all are part owners of not just vehicles from the company but the company itself?
Is that a good thing, or having read the market poorly, invested (heavily) badly, and generally managed a mid tier business not just into shallow water but right up against the rocks, should it be baled out by us or just let the economic winds push it onto the rocks and let the salvers loose with their gas axes? "Project Birch: Treasury plans to use State aid to bail out some of the UK's largest companies as the COVID-19 pandemic bites UK Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, has authorised a bold rescue plan named “Project Birch” to provide State assistance to strategically important companies whose failure would "disproportionately harm the UK economy". Reports state that the Government is planning to offer preferential loans or take equity in strategically important companies, but only as a last resort. This marks a significant change in approach for the UK Government, which has previously been focused on supporting companies through grants and loans." https://www.dwf.law/Legal-Insights/2020/May/Project-Birch |
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28th Jun 2020 4:02pm |
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| Huttopia Member Since: 23 Feb 2016 Location: West Midlands Posts: 1978
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Wasn’t birch used to thrash people with? Sounds like a winner.....why on earth should poorly managed companies get bailed out without accepting management oversight / cost cutting?
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28th Jun 2020 4:27pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2188
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Could just spunk money on painting planes or buy a satellite company with the 'worng' tech........what else could possibly go wrong
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28th Jun 2020 4:48pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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Nationalising by another name then, but leaving the board as it is to loose tax payers money.
A Conservative Government doing state interventions............. it’ll never happen, just like our world beating track and trace app. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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28th Jun 2020 6:02pm |
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