 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Ingenium engine issue |
 
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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Do you know how the Fiat engine handles Euro compliance? The platform looks to have limited space under the bonnet:
 Click image to enlarge "The Tata Harrier’s platform (OMEGA ARC) is a derivative of Jaguar Land Rover’s D8 architecture. The D8 architecture (internally codenamed L550) underpins the popular LR Discovery Sport. And Tata has now confirmed that the OMEGA ARC and D8 will have an identical wheelbase." https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story...ved/313576 |
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12th Feb 2020 7:48am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4216 
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Given the markets where Tata are sold its possible they don’t need to meet the same stringent emissions standards so don’t need some complex exhaust after treatment systems. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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12th Feb 2020 2:47pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1317 
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I haven't fully digested the contents of this, but it reads to me as if the requirement in India for new vehicles is to meet Euro 6 standards by 04/2020
https://dieselnet.com/standards/in/ld.php#alt I wonder if there is a Fiat diesel engine plant already in India or the sub continent which would probably mean lower cost powerplants than shipping from UK or wherever the Ingenium engines are currently built. Could it also be a sign that Tata don't see a long term relationship with their JLR division?  |
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12th Feb 2020 3:41pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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As far as I remember there is a Fiat / Chrysler factory in/near to Chennai (previously known as Madras) - India has truly punitive import duties on cars brought into the country so there are lots of joint venture companies, Indian owned, like in China , to get around this so Tata may be tapping into Fiats capacity - most Tata engines are either tiny capacity or monster truck engines. JLR don’t even have an assembly plant in India - many JLR products in use on the Sub-Continent have been stolen to order in the UK and smuggled in via Dubai.......... having said that you don’t see very many Land Rover products over there, I’ve seen a few Jaguars though, but I have seen one or two around Mumbai and Karachi. Years ago I posted a photo of the car import compound in Port Klang in Malaysia on a forum and every imported car still had its UK number plates on it, two people saw their stolen cars in the photo of the car park full of LR products! Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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12th Feb 2020 4:14pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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"27 May 2011 - Jaguar Land Rover today officially opens its first assembly plant in India.
The facility at Pune in the Maharashtra region of India, will assemble Land Rover Freelander 2 vehicles supplied in Complete Knock Down (CKD) form from Jaguar Land Rover's Halewood manufacturing plant in Liverpool, UK." https://media.jaguarlandrover.com/news/201...pune-india " Tata Motors-owned Jaguar Land Rover is committing fresh money into the parent company’s home market by investing in an engine assembly and manufacturing line at the Pune plant...The company will be manufacturing the Ingenium series of engines for the domestic market." https://m.economictimes.com/jaguar-land-ro...756891.cms |
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13th Feb 2020 7:03am |
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| groaner Member Since: 20 Aug 2019 Location: Bondi Junction Posts: 20 
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Can any of the guys who have taken delivery comment on the DPF in the diesel? Is it "close coupled"?
Cheers |
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17th Jun 2020 7:38am |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3407 
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I haven’t taken delivery yet but I believe it’s close coupled.
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17th Jun 2020 7:48am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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Living in the sticks with the closest decent shop 16 miles away I have only had one issue with DPF’s in any of my various Land Rover products since my first DPF fitted Evoque in 2014. The issue with 2014 Evoque started 9 months after delivery and immediately after a software upgrade from ZF for the 9 speed automatic gearbox. After 9 months and the “upgrade“ I suddenly started to get restricted performance warnings on the dash which was downright dangerous on motorway journeys when you have to drift into the path of lorries thundering along at 55/60 mph and you can only get 30mph out of the car and on the M74 there is no hard shoulder........ I was told I was the only owner suffering the issue, live with it basically. But then more and more reports of the same issue started to appear on the various owner forums and after 2 months of weekly DPF sensor replacements under warranty my local dealer phoned to say that they had a tech from Warwick coming to look at another Evoque suffering the same issue could I take my car in! Now I don’t know how many people are aware of this but originally the ZF nine speed autobox started the car off in 2nd or 3rd gear - 1st was a crawler gear and 2nd was also very short - when mine started to play up I queried why, since the software upgrade the car was pulling away in 1st......... of course the experts in Warwick told me I didn’t know what I was talking about, that was impossible , the owner is always wrong etc. The gearbox ECU software was rolled back to the previous version, no more DPF sensors needed and then I was asked to return the car about 3 months later for a further upgrade but for me I was in the process of changing the car back to an RRS, no way was I going to go through product reliability testing again! Since then even with very infrequent town stop/start driving I’ve not had any restricted performance due to DPF cleaning. One thing I think LR could do to avoid the oil dilution issue due to incomplete DPF regents would be to add a warning light/ warning message that a regen is in progress and not to stop the engine until it has completed the regeneration in XX minutes. It should be possible to do this with a software update without fitting any new hardware as the detection system is already there that triggers the regen in the first place.
With L663 Defender I believe that the DPF system is properly designed as it is a designed from scratch vehicle with DPF from the start whereas up to New Evoque and New DiscoSport, the older designed cars after 2014 have had to use existing underpinnings to fit the DPF into leading to compromises. Hopefully now that the cause of oil dilution is well known there won’t be a problem with car with newly designed underpinnings that incorporate the necessary redesigned exhaust routing and hardware for a regen located in the right place. J77 - have you had any issues with your Velar? Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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17th Jun 2020 9:22am |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3407
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None with the Velar, the only one I had problems with was the 3.0 in my D5, but that was the single turbo TD6, for some reason LR chose to make single turbo rather than parallel sequential like the D4. Though now the D5 has same 3.0 as the RRS.
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17th Jun 2020 11:50am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I guessing it is if this heat shielding is there to protect everything else from it? Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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17th Jun 2020 6:17pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 592
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My current D5 has the newer 3.0L twin turbo I don't think lockdown has been kind on the oil dilution front. I have gone from spending £350 a month on fuel to just one tank in the last 3 months. Its doing a few short journeys a week at best and now its telling me it needs a service in 500 miles even though its only just past 8000 miles. I guess it's not had the opportunity to do a proper regen cycle. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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17th Jun 2020 8:24pm |
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| zilch Member Since: 11 Sep 2019 Location: Whitsundays & Sydney Posts: 820
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i think i will ignore the LR service schedule and go for an annual service as a minimum, and even
every 6 months when i start the Australia circuit, with the amount of dust and crap it will have to deal with, i would assume Oil Dilution will be less of a problem on the Petrol with the GPF .. he says with crossed toes and fingers yet another pommie bar steward down under MY20 110 P400 SE Defender MY10 3.0 RR Sport |
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18th Jun 2020 1:21am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Do you know how JLR raises the exhaust gas temperature for an active regeneration? Is it not injecting extra fuel as the DPF does?
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18th Jun 2020 5:05am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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I believe that the exhaust from a petrol engine is hot enough to prevent it clogging up without any help. From what I read, a GPF is a very different proposition from a DPF. Despite fulfilling a similar function, the petrol version is cheap, requires no maintenance and doesn't increase fuel consumption. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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18th Jun 2020 7:04am |
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