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Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

chalky wrote:
Are you talking about D5 or new defender ?

The clue was in the words I used...

Supacat wrote:
I have every inclination and money burning a hole in my pocket to buy a new Defender

chalky wrote:
Seeing as your he’ll bent on gaining the morale high ground you crack on with your “quote” button, make sure you only show the snippets that make your Y fronts swell and try not to get your mums key board sticky !

Rather juvenile (as is some of your spelling) - if you don't want to debate, just don't.

I don't know what goes through someone's mind when they type stuff like this, but it's highly inappropriate and you need to apologise.

Last edited by Supacat on 31st Dec 2019 12:56pm. Edited 1 time in total

31st Dec 2019 11:21am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

chalky wrote:
Supacat wrote:
chalky wrote:
Maybe I’m looking for something that isn’t there

If you think you are doing this, then there's an obvious answer:

chalky wrote:
6 fully grown men, some who are still 6’8” but slightly wider...

I will spec my own tho and probably go for the 90 over the 110.

You do know they stopped doing the 4 inward facing seats over a decade ago right ? And my time machine is broken so I can’t re visit my youth !

??? This is quite literally what you have posted above as "what I’m after is..."

31st Dec 2019 11:23am

Slideywindows

Member Since: 09 Sep 2016
Location: North Essex
Posts: 1283

chalky wrote:
When I drive 175 miles to work I need to be able to stand upright at the other end for that reason alone I’ve moved on,

I try to keep my posts short, so all I will say is: "You don't seem to need a 4X4 - so have you really moved on far enough?"

Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW estates perhaps?

Then there'll be no need to keep flogging this dead horse........

31st Dec 2019 1:41pm

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3282

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

chalky wrote:

Zed, what I’m after is something that I can fit in and be comfy, when I bought my first Defender a 200Tdi on a K plate in the 90’s my dad went mad as he had deemed It a death trap, fine for its intended use but for long Mtwy journies to and from camp he wasn’t happy with that, despite being a front line soldier in NI on a residential tour he was bothered about me crashing in what he called a road tractor, he had a Discovery at that time and you couldn’t buY a CSW at that time because of the fear that it would take sales from the original Disco, My rationale at that time was mainly due to the MT yard screwing the nut and working on vehicles out of hours upgrading bits, putting windows in the rear sides, roof racks, wheels on bonnet, stuff that was all fairly new in the 90’s, Any way that got nicked, back to the here and now I want something that reminds me of being a kid, growing up outdoors, shooting, fishing, camping, something I can throw the dogs in and drive down tracks and not feel guilty about keeping clean, something that might get knocked or dinged that wouldn’t bother me, I’d want an auto as my arm wouldn’t have to be going up and down like a fiddlers elbow, something with some space for me as a driver and for occupants, like driving to the pub,?me a passenger and 4 on the inward facing seats.... great in your 20’s still quite novel in your 30’s but by the time you’re in to the 40’s having 6 fully grown men, some who are still 6’8” but slightly wider means walking is more convenient. My son is just 15 and 6’3” and he doesn’t fit on the flip down rears in a station wagon, the leg room in a 110 2nd row isn’t ideal. I’ve got no arm room or leg room, I just think it’s small. I think it’s old and as time has moved on and I think about it’s lack of safety features for occupants and other road users including pedestrians it’s dangerous. It will replace my wife’s Tiguan which has loads room and is a biturbo so it goes well, it has as much room in the rear as the RRS, it’s for nostalgia, I’m not buying it to purposefully upset any one or to fulfill a space that I haven’t got for an extreme off roader or for a drilling flatform nor something to attach a winch to even, it’s just for me to look at, drive across the U.K. Europe and hopefully be happy.

Maybe I’m looking for something that isn’t there or maybe I don’t need one,? Despite all that I’m still getting one, and I haven’t ordered one yet, I gave a Dealer £500 in 2012 which I only remember because the Olympics were on, I’m told the first slot or their first one in has my name on it, I will spec my own tho and probably go for the 90 over the 110.

Thanks for your reply.

That all makes sense. I can see why it could suit your lifestyle. Land Rover reliability aside, the new Defender sounds like it could be a decent replacement for your wife's Volkswagen. Especially with teenage kids.
Personally I wouldn't take it over an RRs SVR for everyday driving or long journeys unless space was the issue. But that's just me.

You actually sound like the target market for the new car but there are many others that use their Defenders as originally intended, be that for work or play, and sadly for us it looks like the new one won't fit the bill. The Discovery has been better than the Defender for years but it still couldn't take it's place. Nor has any other manufacturer managed to replace it despite more often than not making better vehicles on paper.

I can see why you and others may have been irked by many of the comments on here but you should bare in mind that much of that is disappointment not hostility. I would gladly buy one if it met my needs. But it doesn't. I am looking forward to some first hand reports though. As you will be one of the first new owners it should make good reading.

Happy New Year! WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

31st Dec 2019 3:32pm

AndrewS

Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3707

2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red

Come on kids play nice

130's have feeling's as well you know

31st Dec 2019 5:16pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

zilch wrote:

No doubt I will be classified as a fanboy and / or sycophant as I have chosen a new Defender over a “icon”

I wouldn't call you that, but you may be mistaken for one if caught in the act of adjusting your tow hitch:

Click image to enlarge

31st Dec 2019 5:27pm

Martin
Site Admin

Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6605

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red

Right the time has come I’m afraid.

This is a 2020 Defender thread in a 2020 Defender section. If you have no constructive comment to make then please do not post in this thread or this section.

It’s becoming a pain and spoiling the forum for other people and myself as admin.

1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top

2015 D90 XS SW

31st Dec 2019 5:52pm

Huttopia

Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1972

👏👏👏

31st Dec 2019 6:29pm

zilch

Member Since: 11 Sep 2019
Location: Whitsundays & Sydney
Posts: 817

Supacat wrote:

I wouldn't call you that, but you may be mistaken for one if caught in the act of adjusting your tow hitch:

sorry to disappoint you but the electronic tow hitch is not approved for the Australian market.. just the
bog standard manual system, i shall ignore you implication, what i stated has been put up by a certain
individual more than once.. i am not making it up

Thanks yet another pommie bar steward down under

MY20 110 P400 SE Defender
MY10 3.0 RR Sport

1st Jan 2020 4:41am

Ecco

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 280

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Galway Green

@Supacat

Dont stress yourself over fanboy attitude man..these are same kind of folks, standing in long queue, at front of Apple store to get their iPhone, at 4AM in the morning..

You can see that most of them ignorantly saying that, 'if i need utility truck ill select this or that', while they ignoring fact that defender supposed to be utility truck and it was for over 60 years and by that statement alone, they admit, new defender is NOT what it supposed to be. Also, since they dont need utility truck, then i guess ocean of choices for them is much bigger for what they need(basically any luxury vehicle..yes?), instead of overpriced hardware called pretender, but they will tell YOU to go look elsewhere for utility machine, instead of asking defender to be..defender...

Dont feed trolls man..this sort of 'enthusiasts' killing Land Rover for ages, and products such as pretender are main reason why JLR doesnt make money, and instead changing hands all the time...mehh, why would trolls bother with that??

1st Jan 2020 4:44am

zilch

Member Since: 11 Sep 2019
Location: Whitsundays & Sydney
Posts: 817

Ecco I do not think anyone is telling people what to buy from a utility perspective, what we are pointing
out is that the utility market is saturated with navara’s, tritons, bt50’s, ford rangers et etc, it is not
that easy for LR to compete there, especially in markets where they do not have a broad base of owners
or reputational issues, that was the point. I work for a telco so do not have to queue for a new iPhone or android

Perhaps we can have a grown up conversation if you avoid all the petty name calling yet another pommie bar steward down under

MY20 110 P400 SE Defender
MY10 3.0 RR Sport

1st Jan 2020 6:30am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

zilch wrote:
Perhaps we can have a grown up conversation if you avoid all the petty name calling

I totally agree but what happened to:

zilch wrote:
Anyhow who does not enjoy the banter Laughing

Talking of others petty name calling, is this any different :

zilch wrote:
so those who are not stuck in the past can have a decent chat without the incessant whinging and moaning from the luddites that frequent the Defender 2020 sub forum Laughing Whistle

zilch wrote:
No doubt I will be classified as a fanboy and / or sycophant as I have chosen a new Defender over a “icon” Laughing

zilch wrote:
No doubt my post will attract the usual flak from the traditionalists

1st Jan 2020 7:17am

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1780

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

Just had a quick read of the last few pages and I suppose human nature leads to sarcasm and offence, but life's too short.

JLR as a business must have spend a lot of money researching whether a new separate chassied beam axle Defender was a more profitable option than a lifestyle 4x4 on an existing platform, clearly it wasn't.

When you look back at LR history, the Range Rover classic was a beam axle separate chassied vehicle, now all alloy and independent suspension, as was discovery and now Defender.

The old style Defender customer base isn't something that JLR want any more - rock up at a dealer in a Defender and you're made to feel as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit, they, like all top end suppliers just want your signature in a box, a credit card deposit and a direct debit for £499 or what ever a month for three years.

I'll be very surprised if the next 'baby Defender' goes on sale at realistic money, unless they do what they did with Freelander, use it to prop up the brand through hard times and then at new model time call it something else and stick £15k on the price.

I am sure the new Defender will be more capable, more comfortable, more economical, much safer etc. but I will be surprised if they generate the loyalty or passion of the old one, or get anywhere near its ability to make mechanics out of its owners or its adaptability or glacial depreciation.

Accept it for the evolution of the whole marque, buy one if you want to / can afford to and continue to enjoy your current Defender until we are all priced or shamed off the roads.

Have a great new year!

Keith

1st Jan 2020 8:26am

zilch

Member Since: 11 Sep 2019
Location: Whitsundays & Sydney
Posts: 817

Supacat, luddite/traditionalist vs sycophant (not my quote one of your friends) and
w@nk3r which was implied in your post to me, what is banter vs what is personal and direct
attack.. Maybe Martin can sort it out. Lets call a truce and agree going forward not to respond
to each others posts.. yet another pommie bar steward down under

MY20 110 P400 SE Defender
MY10 3.0 RR Sport

1st Jan 2020 9:04am

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3149

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

I was thinking about the above thread recently and I think I realised something.
Basically there are Landrover fans, and there are fans of The Landrover. They aren't the same thing, and I would be one of the latter. I was struggling to work out why someone would buy a vehicle that wasn't a Landrover but had the badge on, and I figured that was why, because their passion is the brand not the product.

Not saying either one is right or wrong, but it seems that is where the divide is.

I do hope the fans of the new vehicle enjoy them, but also perhaps understand the crushing disappointment about JLR not delivering a vehicle we really hoped would appeal to us. If they had got it right, trust me I would have considered buying one...I wanted to buy one, but it does not fulfil my needs of continuing its heritage forward, it is a total departure from what it was. As such I'll keep my old ones going and be content with that, but I don't think I can say anything more about the new one unless I'm specifically asked for my opinion...

Dan 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

1st Jan 2020 9:06am

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