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BogMonster



Member Since: 05 Feb 2008
Location: Stanley
Posts: 400
Falkland Islands 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Zed wrote:
Quote:
This disappoints me a bit. The Grenadier doesn’t need to be a Defender clone to succeed.


Agreed.

It would be awful if they made an ersatz Defender.


Thinking Santana as an example of how not to ........ the same, but just not the same. ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi
Post #802674 18th Nov 2019 9:25am
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romain71



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: bourgogne
Posts: 7
France 
Assuming that the project is successful, who will sell the vehicle (dealer, independent, ...) ? who will ensure the garanty ... ?

Several questions that I hope will one day be answered Very Happy
Post #802810 19th Nov 2019 2:32pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4209
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Can’t recall where I read it, but I’m certain it’s been suggested they’ll use Farming equipment and machinery dealers. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #802867 19th Nov 2019 7:33pm
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Fatboy Slim



Member Since: 04 Feb 2008
Location: Bridgend
Posts: 1006
Wales 
Tempted to ask them if I can become a dealer
Post #802871 19th Nov 2019 7:51pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4662
Ireland 
Land Rover maintain that it is not profitable to make a basic tough no nonsense vehicle like the Defender. They have an existing experienced work force and a manufacturing facility in place.
Ineos think that it is possible to make a tough no nonsense vehicle like the Defender and for it to be financially viable. They have to recruit and train a work force and construct a manufacturing facility from scratch.
One of them is wrong..... 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #803125 21st Nov 2019 9:26pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17386
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
spudfan wrote:
Land Rover maintain that it is not profitable to make a basic tough no nonsense vehicle like the Defender. ...


Presumably Land Rover maintains that it is not sufficiently profitable for it to make a basic tough no nonsense vehicle like the Defender.

That doesn't mean that for a niche manufacturer on a smaller scale the same economics apply. However it is equally possible that either or both is wrong.

Morgan seems to get by manufacturing low volume niche vehicles aimed at the eccentric weirdo market, so clearly it can be done.
Post #803133 21st Nov 2019 10:24pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1316
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
As the old addage goes, "Where there is a will, there is a way"
Post #803141 22nd Nov 2019 7:21am
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Setok



Member Since: 16 Jan 2009
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 422
Finland 
milesr3 wrote:
Would be interested to understand what the Defender and heritage shape trademarks are. And why Land Rover chose to omit them from the new Defender if they were so precious.

I guess it's the square back end, flat front, tapered roofline, bulkhead below windscreen with vents, round headlights, barreled sides, door tops, cappings, exposed rear crossmember, L594 lenses...


I was just thinking the same... if that shape was so important to their brand, how come they dropped it...?

I hope the Grenadier will also look forwards as well as back. The Defender became what it was through constant evolution. For instance the world is moving away from combustion engines so it would be great to see that is something they are considering and how the utility offering of the Defender could be built around a different platform.
Post #804116 29th Nov 2019 10:46pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
blackwolf wrote:
spudfan wrote:
Land Rover maintain that it is not profitable to make a basic tough no nonsense vehicle like the Defender. ...


Presumably Land Rover maintains that it is not sufficiently profitable for it to make a basic tough no nonsense vehicle like the Defender.

That doesn't mean that for a niche manufacturer on a smaller scale the same economics apply. However it is equally possible that either or both is wrong.

Morgan seems to get by manufacturing low volume niche vehicles aimed at the eccentric weirdo market, so clearly it can be done.


It would not be the first time JLR have spun the facts to suit their own particular narrative. If it was all about business and the money then why did they scrap the old Defender production kit, designs rights, etc and not sell to Grenadier?

I get the feeling that JLR feel they are above the "lower" or gritty end of the market and rather prefer to be seen at Burghley horse trials than a farming or industrial event. Speaks more about the knobs running the business and the accolites they have surrounded themselves with than the enthusiasm for the product that created it all.
Post #804200 30th Nov 2019 4:35pm
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Fatboy Slim



Member Since: 04 Feb 2008
Location: Bridgend
Posts: 1006
Wales 
I totally agree
Post #804201 30th Nov 2019 4:42pm
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Morepower



Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630
New Zealand 
Nailed it Supacat... It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)
Post #804275 1st Dec 2019 9:32am
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4209
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
A small update on progress below.

https://4x4i.com/ineos-grenadier-engineering-partner-announced/ 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #806620 17th Dec 2019 1:28pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3289
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Ratcliffe was on Geraint Thomas and Luke Rowe's podcast this week. He said his worst ever purchase was a £130,000 Range Rover. After continuous faults he sold it for just £90,000 after a few weeks. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.
Post #806621 17th Dec 2019 1:40pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
An update suggesting that we will start to see things from this month:

https://www.facebook.com/1232644253547734/...n&vh=e

"Building the Grenadier
We're building the Grenadier from the ground up
To a blueprint for a truly uncompromising 4x4
Follow the journey
Component by component
Episode by episode
Starts January 2020"
Post #808369 1st Jan 2020 2:31pm
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familymad



Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3481
 2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
Excited to see what this turns out like. 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI
Post #808374 1st Jan 2020 3:14pm
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