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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829   
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Stacey, all true. And you’re clearly obsessed. Socks????
“Parking rules? I will go out of my way to park next to another Defender if out and about & parking” A couple of months ago I spotted a nice Def whilst driving past a supermarket car park. I turned back, parked up, took the shot and then left, carrying on with my journey. I then deleted the photo by accident before posting it  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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12th Sep 2019 3:25pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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I think the G-Wagen following is far, far more niche than the Defender. That’ll be impacting sales as much as anything. Outside of wealthy parts of a city, G-wagens are non existent, whereas Defs are everywhere. To copy the Defender was purely ‘shape’ related, as the front end is just as high and just as flat as a Puma, so clearly pedestrian safety was an achievable goal. So, all they had to do was copy the detailing of the body into the monocoque. It’s designed on a computer FFS. Wouldn’t have been hard. And one advantage they had over many retro updates (as someone pointed out on another thread) is it is already big. Most of the others (911, Wrangler, VW Camper, Mini etc) had to be dramatically upsized. The Defender had the height and length and probably only needed a little more width to provide greater driver comfort and all the required airbags/sound proofing. The chassis, engine, drive train etc could all have been stuffed in, as shown by the size of the Discfender . Four things would have nailed it. Copy the silhouette Copy the window cutouts Copy the nose Copy the rear overhang. Everything else could be entirely new (and better). But no, they had to mess with the iconography as well....  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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12th Sep 2019 3:31pm |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873 
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^^^This. |
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12th Sep 2019 4:10pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3316  
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Yep. Had the potential to be amazing. |
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12th Sep 2019 4:20pm |
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Front reminds me of an evil clown (just watched "it" 
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| OsloBlue Member Since: 14 Jul 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 823 
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Gren i'm with you, chassis & body crumple zones would have been easy enough.
As for pedestrian safety pedestrian airbags are a thing on the discoveries. I think that internal airbags would have been hard but not impossible to pull off. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/ Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html  |
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12th Sep 2019 10:10pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3150 
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I had to reluctantly say no. It stuck in my throat to do it. Like others here I've loved (and hated) these things for years. Grew up wanting a new one and was lucky enough to do so. The problem is that I was one of the minority. I know a fair few on here also bought new, but in the general "scene", second hand (or even third or fourth) rules. That is utterly irrelevant to JLR. We, as enthusiasts, gave them no incentive to pitch the vehicle to us. The stereotypical skinflint landrover fan is a stereotype for a reason!
The styling is my main bugbear. I have no objection to the technology but to me it just doesn't look like a Defender. I can't help but think the sweet spot was to have ironed out all the numerous failings (what many of us might call quirks) but keep as much of the look as possible including the proportions. Think new mini, new beetle, new 500. I can't quite work out why they didn't do that. At least as a starting point, which might have allowed further drift as it got updated. The 110 I think looks especially unbalanced, such a long vehicle with the rear wheel so far back looks wrong to me. Likewise the lack of pickup or even double cab models somehow detracts from what made the Defender a Defender. I was disappointed to see the 110 commercial is really a USW with no back seats. The 90 hardtop does look quite nice though, although pricing is still steep. Online I'm basically seeing a repeat of the DC100 in terms of reaction. A minority love it, the majority seem very disappointed. I don't know how that can be good. This is only partially about price, most folks seem to just hate how it looks. It hurts me to be so critical, I've loved this brand all my life, but I can only admit I think this is the wrong direction. Defender was never about how deep it could wade or how much it could tow, it was about heritage, about fairly low technology and simplicity, and later on about being distinctive. The new model is sadly none of these things. I'm not going to call for sackings or riots. I'm sure Gerry is a very nice man, doing his job in accordance with market research results. I hope JLR continues to grow and prosper, but I wouldn't like to bet how well or badly this new machine will sell. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" Last edited by 22900013A on 13th Sep 2019 6:10am. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Sep 2019 5:19am |
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| Sulisuli Member Since: 30 Oct 2016 Location: South west Posts: 4795 
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^ well written and echos the sentiments of many I’m sure. 2015 HT XS 90
2008 SVX 90 2000 XS TD5 90 |
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13th Sep 2019 5:25am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3514 
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+1 to that. Nicely written
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13th Sep 2019 5:35am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3150
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Thank you gentlemen. I was trying to be balanced and fair. I am glad my words have resonated. I can't help but think things would be different if a few more of us had reached for the chequebook but it's a bit too late to complain now. That said, I feel there was a lot more to the demise of the Defender.
I can only respect Gerry's honesty when he said "this is a business". No point getting too sentimental about it. This new one will probably never be seen the same way as the old, but the old one had a good innings and won't be forgotten for a lifetime yet. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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13th Sep 2019 6:15am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Interesting ~ most brands would spend considerable sums of money for the level of engagement shown by those on forums like this.  |
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13th Sep 2019 6:47am |
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| duckworthparts Site Sponsor Member Since: 30 Jun 2011 Location: Market Rasen Posts: 631
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My post is my personal opinion towards some of the comments posted on the thread. They do not represent the brand or duckworth's view.
Exactly, we hang onto nostalgia far too easy, that's not a bad thing. Nor do we like change, but change is inevitable, especially for brand to be successful. https://www.facebook.com/duckworthparts Send a paypal payment direct using this link www.paypal.me/duckworthparts www.duckworthparts.co.uk My Direct Line: 01673 849873 Email: danroberts@duckworthlandrover.co.uk Supplier of Genuine Land Rover & Jaguar Parts For All Models Can also supply OEM & Aftermarket parts |
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13th Sep 2019 7:41am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Using "far too easy" and then saying "not a bad thing"
Not sure if that if some of Prof Gerry's reductive thinking or taken directly from this guy: Click image to enlarge No one is saying that JLR should not have changed the Defender - all the conversations above are about the DIRECTION it has taken. It's a little condescending to suggest otherwise.
By what measure - if you see it as a business, it's far from that at the moment as a direct result of the change and direction it has taken. Last edited by Supacat on 13th Sep 2019 8:18am. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Sep 2019 7:58am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3150
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That part was more in the sense of "what's done is done". Its out now, nothing we can do about it even if it is sincerely felt to be the wrong path. But so far as JLR are concerned I think sales figures will be the test.
Nothing wrong with nostalgia, and I agree the design had to change in some ways, but I think something with more of the look of the old one (without just being another warm over) would have hit the bullseye. New tech I'm a retro-themed body. I suspect a lot of people (the type who stop you at the petrol station) loved the look of the Defender but were put off by the shortcomings. I'm not sure they are going to go buy the new one, in fact I'm struggling to see exactly who it is aimed at, which is why I do feel this should have been the Discovery 5. Just my opinion and unlikely to have much impact in the short or long term. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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13th Sep 2019 8:02am |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Sales figures will indeed be the test! I couldn't agree more. I like to think that my opinion is 'right' but I am not in the motor trade, so it's simply what I think. I think JLR have got it seriously wrong (again) and that the new Defender should have been a Jimny on steroids priced at £30,000. It isn't, and I have to accept that I'm never going to own one, because that's what I wanted...really wanted. It's much more expensive and not really a replacement. But as others here like supacat have pointed out, they have deliberately pitched it in the sector they want. It's funny, because I thought the iPace was going to be a massive success. However, as I understand it, sales are 'crashing' according to one news item and are apparently a real worry to JLR. Again (in my opinion) JLR priced it too high. If JLR have got it wrong yet again with the new Defender, then they are going to be in serious trouble.
As was said, sales figures will be the test - it doesn't matter what we think, it matters what the people think whom it's been aimed at...and that isn't us. Now left. Last edited by What puddle? on 13th Sep 2019 9:19am. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Sep 2019 8:21am |
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