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| Sulisuli Member Since: 30 Oct 2016 Location: South west Posts: 4795   
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 2015 HT XS 90
2008 SVX 90 2000 XS TD5 90 |
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11th Sep 2019 8:16pm |
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| bear100 Member Since: 22 Mar 2010 Location: South Wales Posts: 1917  
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I kind of like it, but it’s far to pricey to be used as a Defender, it’s the price that has swayed me to bite no  2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8
2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI 2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone) 2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone) 1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone) 1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone) 1994 discovery 300tdi (gone) 90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone) Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone) |
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11th Sep 2019 8:29pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Also a no vote, but not just on price.
I traded in a V8 RRS for my Defender in 2013. The RRS was a good vehicle for a 120 mile daily commute, but it never really excited me or engaged me. I never parked it up and caught myself looking backwards at it as I walked away, I never had a little project to do on it at the weekend, I hardly ever took it out just for a drive, and certainly nobody stopped me at petrol stations or garden centre car parks just to chat about the vehicle. I can see the new Defender moves things on but it misses all these emotional triggers in much the same way. Having suggested that the heart rules the head, then just consider the hard financial facts. When I traded in my RRS, I walked away with a brand new DCPU and several thousand £s in my pocket. Today, the Defender must be worth several multiples of the RRS would have been if I had kept it. Prof Gerry talks about it being a business, but where's the business case for me to invest emotional or financial capital in a new one. Oh, and the acid test ~ Park next to a new one in a car park in the future and see what the reactions are of both drivers and passersby... I certainly won't be feeling like the poor relation or having got the  end of the stick. That's assuming the owner of the new one actually recognises what my vehicle is. |
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12th Sep 2019 5:40am |
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| Sulisuli Member Since: 30 Oct 2016 Location: South west Posts: 4795
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Very good post supacat. Liked the line “ I never parked it up and caught myself looking backwards at it as I walked away” 2015 HT XS 90
2008 SVX 90 2000 XS TD5 90 |
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12th Sep 2019 5:51am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829  
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^^^ Couldn’t agree more. Another way of looking at the ownership, how much time do you/we spend not only looking at it, but thinking about it, modifying it, shopping for it, writing about it, talking about it, boring non-Defender owners about it, going to ‘meets’ to show off about it and taking photographs of it? There are very, very few cars out there that garner that level of attention and obsession from their owners. Very few.
Classics, in general Original Minis Original VW Campers 911 (Some, older) Ferraris Notably, nearly all the cars that do are older, from an era when cars had character. Further, the owners love them for that character. NOT for the image the car portrays of them, the owner (which is why i caveated older Ferraris as I think modern Ferrari ownership is, more often than not, about image than understanding and appreciating the car) Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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12th Sep 2019 6:13am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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List is good and I'd definitely add Lotus to it.
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12th Sep 2019 6:42am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3514 
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"boring non-Defender owners about it"
Yes, Grenadier, my 12 year old niece has accused me of this on more than one occasion 
I think the VW Camper (and Beetle, come to that) and the classic Mini scene is very close and in the same league to Land Rover ownership. |
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12th Sep 2019 7:27am |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Can I politely ask anyone yet to vote NOT to take the price out of the equation? I deliberated on how to pose the question for the poll. To me, the price is a HUGE part of this. Even though I find the looks highly questionable, I know that from past experience the looks will grow on me. So if the new Defender 90 had a start price of £30,000 I feel sure that the current 70%-29% might well be reversed, or at least 60/40. We all wanted different things from the new Defender, and it seems very few have been satisfied. We've come to accept disappointment from LR, though, haven't we? As I say, if it was £25-£30,000 a lot of us would feels different. But the price is crazy, absolutely crazy. You can get a Wrangler 2.0 GME Sahara 4dr Auto8 for just £40,000. So all LR had to do was undercut that. To me, they've made a huge mistake that will really hit sale numbers. So, again, we can't take the price out of the equation (in my opinion). Now left.
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12th Sep 2019 7:58am |
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| Fellrunner Member Since: 28 Sep 2014 Location: Wandering Posts: 258  
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I just don’t understand what it’s trying to be; what’s its role? At the price point, and frankly luxury trim (which it is) it is certainly not a workhorse. I really can’t imagine anyone using one like we do our old defender (dents, scratches, mud & wet in the interior - it’s all fine, just adds to the character). As such, doesn’t this new defender simply compete with every other car in the range. Like a number of others, I specced my preferred build and got to almost £90k. At this price point, why wouldn’t I just buy a RR? I do like the new defender, I just don’t understand it’s role?
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12th Sep 2019 8:03am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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It's NOT a car for the UK market that can be then exported to other markets with a few modifications.
It's a car for the world market and in particular the US and China premium ones. One is just a huge market and the other is going to grow more in actual volume than any other in future years. JLR want a small piece of these pies. Don't make the mistake that the world revolves around the UK.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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12th Sep 2019 8:14am |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 592
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I said yes, I know I'm in the minority but as a long standing LR customer the current discovery range is no longer suitable for my needs and this is exactly what I need.
As for looks, I like it, I think it's pretty much where it would be if they had properly managed the defender revision lifecycle. The old one is probably 6 model refreshes behind so it was always going to be a painful jump. They need to make sure they stay on it now with interim facelifts and refreshes to keep it within after and emission standards etc. I was pleasantly surprised by the prices I was expecting them to have gone where Merc went with the G class and it be ridiculously expensive. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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12th Sep 2019 8:19am |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Supacat, I appreciate what you're saying, and you're right, but that doesn't explain why it's priced so high! Look what you can get for those prices...even staying within JLR! JLR has pitched the Defender into a market price sector that it doesn't belong to, hasn't it? You don't see too many G Wagons for a very good reason. Is that the market JLR has gone for? Now left.
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12th Sep 2019 8:25am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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JLR is in the premium vehicle market.
The old Defender was not a premium vehicle. It's moved the Defender into the space currently held by the Discovery. The Discovery is almost certainly going to shuffle up the price band and so on with the entire LR fleet.* History shows this is exactly what they did with Discovery before when they needed to make space for the Freelander. JLR is looking for returns of over 6% - it simply can't get this if it plays in the utility market where volume is king. * If you had a separate poll asking current D4 owners what LR product best meets there needs, what would they say? There's already enough anecdotal evidence on this forum, even in this thread to suggest JLR have landed this model exactly where they wanted - the jumbo jet on the postage stamp of the automotive world. Last edited by Supacat on 12th Sep 2019 8:37am. Edited 1 time in total |
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12th Sep 2019 8:33am |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Ok, but:
Discovery Sport £30,000 Defender 110 £45,000 If you're correct, why do it? Why push the 110 into the Discovery bracket, and do what they've always done - which hasn't ended well? They should have kept the Freelander at Vauxhall Mokka prices. We all know they push all their cars upwards (money wise). Isn't the serious money in high-volume cars? Genuine question. Now left. Last edited by What puddle? on 12th Sep 2019 8:43am. Edited 1 time in total |
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12th Sep 2019 8:36am |
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