 | Home > Technical > Swivel pin housings - differences? |
 
|
|
|
| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727   
|
Hello boys and girls, I appear to have possibly made a bit of a faux pas
I bought a front axle from a 2010 Defender earlier in the year, to replace my 1989 early type axle on a 110, due to the desire to use the wider front radius arms.  Click image to enlarge It has now been wire-brushed and grit blasted, and painted up ready to provide many years of use. I also have had the differential rebuilt by Ashcroft, with a Ashcroft locking differential, and Ashcroft heavy duty half-shafts and CV joints. Now I was aware that the early swivel housings differed to the late type in that the early type (1987->1993) used oil instead of grease inside to lubricate the CV, and as such had a drain plug and a level plug in addition to the fill plug. I had naively assumed that other than the plugs, the swivel pin housings were identical. However when I look at the LRWorkshop site, there is a bewildering array of part numbers - and I am questioning if I need to get later model swivel pin housings. Borrowing images from LRWorkshop: The early type (1987->1993): https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...0455_52606 Click image to enlarge 1: FRC4838/FRC4840 Housing-swivel pin, RH Superseded by: FTC2528/FTC2530 1: FRC4839/FRC4841 Housing-swivel pin, LH Superseded by: FTC2529/FTC2531 The middle type (1994->2006): https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...0456_52607 Click image to enlarge 1: FTC3308/FTC3310/FTC5298 Housing-swivel pin, RH 1: FTC3309/FTC3311/FTC5297 Housing-swivel ping, LH 18: FTC3154 Front Stub Axle The late type (2007 -> 2016): https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...sing_44788 Click image to enlarge 1: FTC5297 With Redundant Steering Arm, Housing-swivel pin, LH 1: FTC5298 With Redundant Steering Arm, Housing-swivel pin, RH 15: FTC3154 Front Stub Axle The good news is that there is a single part number for the later type Stub Axle, so that part is sorted. My questions are: (1) What changed between the mid and late type components on the front axle? The images look the same, but the part numbers are all different. (2) Can the early type swivel pin housing be used with the later type stub axles and other parts? (3) Why are there so many part numbers for the mid-type swivel pin housings? I understand there is a RH and LH one, but there seems to be three different types of each of these which is confusing me. If I need to, I can purchase new swivel pin housings, but at over £500 (new) they are pretty expensive, and have not yet been able to find them second hand on ebay. Cheers! Chris. 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
||
14th Aug 2019 10:13pm |
|
| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727
|
Yes thanks Blackwolf - filling me with confidence
I was already aware - the welds look good to me on this one, but I'll be fitting those brackets as well for added insurance. 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
||
|
14th Aug 2019 11:48pm |
|
| oneten110 Member Since: 02 Jul 2011 Location: Wish I was still in France Posts: 741 
|
I'm not sure this will answer your questions directly but my front axle casing is a 300 tdi era unit. Fitted with early type swivel housings and the early stub axles. Incidentally, the early swivel housings are fitted with 3 plugs, filler, drain and level.However it is fitted with mid type swivels. The reason for this
 is to enable the fitment of the earliest type, larger CV joints and deeper drive flanges, but enabling the fitment of swivels with roller bearings top and bottom. It gets more complicated because it is also fitted with a 4pin diff. Thus the half shafts are an Ashcroft special. The early stub axles are marginally longer than the later type which necessitates the fitment of earlier hubs, these have the wheel bearings slightly further apart than the later types, the thrust washers and the lock washers are a different design as well. The earlier mid life swivel housings were still fitted with filler and drain plugs because when they first came out the swivels were still oil filled. Presumably at some point when grease replaced oil, the drain plug was deleted. Thus explaining 2 out of the 3 part nos to cover this era, at some point during all of this, around 1996 I think, the method of adjusting/retaining the wheel bearings changed as well.
Did any of that make sense/help you in any way? It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten |
||
|
15th Aug 2019 12:03am |
|
| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1681  
|
The bolt pattern offset on the actual “swivel balls” is most likely different between early and late, among many other differences. There’s also a thick seal (early) and thin seal (late). The very early axles will have had a railko Bush too not bearings like the later ones.
|
||
|
15th Aug 2019 12:30am |
|
| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2732 
|
Swivel ball bolt pattern is the same on all axles so you can just bolt the whole swivel assembly onto your later axle casing. Diff pattern likewise- although you may need to replace some of the diff studs depending on the age of the diff itself.
I have a 300Tdi casing with 200Tdi swivels/hubs on mine. You can mix and match swivels and hubs to, but the swivel ball needs to match the swivel housing (i.e. railko type or bearing type) and the stub axle and hub needs to match the CV joint and half-shaft/diff. |
||
|
15th Aug 2019 9:48am |
|
| oneten110 Member Since: 02 Jul 2011 Location: Wish I was still in France Posts: 741
|
The swivel seal has been the same throughout production, as has the bolt pattern on the swivels When checking the part Nos for the mid life swivel housings, FTC3310 and 3311 come up as not known, whilst FTC3308 and 3309, default to Ftc5297/5298. Thus suggesting that Land Rover had a rationalisation. It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten |
||
|
15th Aug 2019 12:12pm |
|
| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1681
|
They’re not all the same and very early axles have a thicker seal and different retainer ring.
|
||
|
15th Aug 2019 12:37pm |
|
| oneten110 Member Since: 02 Jul 2011 Location: Wish I was still in France Posts: 741
|
From 1984 parts list: part No FRC2889. When you enter that number in a parts finder, this is the result you get.
https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/416...er_classic from 2007 on Defender parts list: part No FTC3401, this is the result you get https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/416...r_classic. Both part Nos have been replaced by LR059968. Thus the seals are the same. I will give you that the retaining ring has changed from. https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/116...__defender to https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/101...iscovery_1 It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten |
||
|
15th Aug 2019 1:46pm |
|
| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
571890
Discovery 1 - All models to (VIN) JA032850 - 12.5mm without anti-lock brakes - Range Rover Classic - All models to (VIN) HA610293 (1190 approx.) - 12.5mm without anti-lock brakes Oil seal Inner diameter 118mm Thickness 13mm FTC3401 = FRC2889 = LR059968 Oil seal Inner diameter 120mm Thickness 9mm |
||
|
15th Aug 2019 2:11pm |
|
| oneten110 Member Since: 02 Jul 2011 Location: Wish I was still in France Posts: 741
|
The question referred to Defender. So, oddly enough, I looked up the parts lists for the 90/110 and Defender. Apparently the swivel seals on a series are different as well. Quelle surprise It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten
|
||
|
15th Aug 2019 3:20pm |
|
| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727
|
Lots of great information, thank you all for your replies.
I see that I have more research to do then - the information about the different length stub axles was particularly valuable. Looking at the invoice from Ashcrofts for the front axle parts, I have: Heavy duty front halfshafts (23 spline CV type) Late drive flanged, part no. 859 Late style CV joints (CVL) which is all to match the late type axle, so I think I will just get all the parts to match the late type. However I would like to use the double nut and locking tab to secure the hub on, as opposed to the newer stake nut, but hopefully that's a simple case of getting a couple of nuts and a lock washer. 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
||
|
15th Aug 2019 10:35pm |
|
| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1681
|
Yep you can swap over to the double nut, don’t buy the cheapest nuts and washers as they’re a poor fit and quality- I buy them in 10’s as handy to have in your stock.
I think possibly the CV with the abs tone ring doesn’t fit properly inside one of them from memory too. I think the reason I remember is having to work out why it was binding on one that some else had repaired. Then you get into aftermarket cv shafts and the quality control on them too  |
||
|
15th Aug 2019 10:47pm |
|
| NielsPeterKofoed Member Since: 11 May 2020 Location: Zealand Posts: 1  
|
I have more or less the same issue with my 1991 Defender 110 SW, so I'm just courious to hear how this upgrade is progressing.
I have the front swivels with railko bushings in the top and tapered roller bearings in the bottom. I would like to have tapered roller bearings top/bottom with swivel pins ready for ABS sensor. I addition, I would like to upgrade the disc brakes to ventilated Ø330mm. And I will have the 23-spline Ashcroft Limited Slip Diff + half axles. I have figured out that I will basically have to change more or less all the components on both sides, and will only be able to keep the axle casing. Should I go for an later 2007+ front axle? They are hard to find, and I will need the diff-upgrade and brake-upgrade anyway. Where do I find some stiffening brackets for the axle casing? |
||
|
11th May 2020 5:55pm |
|
| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17724 
|
Sound advice! I once out of necessity bought a Britpart hub stake nut and ended up have to replace the stub axle after the shoddily-formed nut damaged the thread beyond repair. Just one reason why I don't buy anything from Britpart if I can help it, it simply isn't worth the hassle and you'll probably end up doing the job again with proper parts anyway. |
||
|
11th May 2020 6:31pm |
|
|
|
| All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
< Previous Topic | Next Topic > |
Posting Rules
|
Site Copyright © 2006-2025 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
