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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829   
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And Schuamcher, whilst joining Ferrari in 96, didn't win a title with them until 2000, when by then IT had become the best car (in a paddock where the majority didn't finish races, whilst today it's the reverse), and we musn't forget the impact Todt (improved management and funding), Brawn (techincal master) and Byrnne (designer) had in improving the Ferrari in those four years. Indeed Ferrari won the manfacturer's title before they won the Driver's whilst MS was with the team. Don't get me wrong, outstanding driver, but no-doubt a couple of maliciously won titles, in an era with less competition and less reliability. So it would have to be said, that whilst it's nigh on impossible to compare driver's from differing eras, LH has to be given far more credit than he is. A lot of antipathy for someone who was (at the time) the youngest winner of a title, beat his two-time champion team mate Alonso in his first year at Mclaren, who is second only to MS on Poles, GPs and Titles, who has had his fare share of bad luck such as Malaysia 2016 etc etc etc. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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30th Oct 2018 4:34pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3316  
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Nice article by Jolyon Palmer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46031254 |
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30th Oct 2018 4:54pm |
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| Laurie Member Since: 22 Feb 2008 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 2897  
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It was Newey, not Schuey.
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30th Oct 2018 6:26pm |
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| Laurie Member Since: 22 Feb 2008 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 2897
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....plus, Ferrari could do no wrong in the Place de la Concorde.
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30th Oct 2018 6:29pm |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1286
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Why "sad" truth? Are we morally obliged to prefer people who are obsessed with winning, over those who just enjoy taking part? Eddie the Eagle. Now there's a Legend!  |
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30th Oct 2018 7:40pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3514 
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James Hunt now that was a legend
Drunk beer, smoked tabs, dragged himself away from a blond beauty in his caravan to just about get to the formation lap to drive his car and win. None of this fitness rubbish of the modern day drivers
This is just my opinion, and I may be wrong but I believe the problem with sport in general is the participants are professional robots who are trained, tweaked, and controlled to the 'enth degree. Everything they do is measured and monitored. It's almost perfection. Not F1 but some athletes seem to be only just on the right side of legal with the pills and potions they are popping and sometimes they get caught out. They have PR people to tell them how to speak during interviews, they have nutritionists, Physicians..... amateur sport is far from amateur. I give you Alex 'Hurricane' Higgins, Kevin Keegan, Eric Bristow, yes, Nigel Mansell, Carl Fogarty, Daley Thompson, Gazza, JPR Williams, Emlyn Highes, Vinnie Jones, all amazing characters who the public would love or hate in equal measure, but they were interesting and there was a feeling of belonging. You can obviously still see some characters in sport today and yes, the list above could have included Steve 'interesting' Davis (thanks Spitting Image, I loved that show), but I believe a lot of sport is now beyond most ordinary people. These people have to be perfection to get to what they have to do to get to the top. And if they didn't, someone from another country would. We should always praise our winners, it's just when you can't relate to them, or feel any empathy towards them, it's difficult to be happy. Knowing someone has won a world championship maybe tarnished knowing that the recipient was paid £40M to do it and takes their millions out of the country? Just my opinion, obviously. Lewis (and his Mercedes Team) have done astonishingly well and to equal Fangio is remarkable. |
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30th Oct 2018 8:27pm |
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| Fat Cog Member Since: 19 Mar 2012 Location: Oxfordshire & Devon Posts: 502 
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Interesting thread...moving it along a bit is another conundrum as to who would win if they were all in the same car?
My neighbour has just retired after a career of 40+ years in senior positions within F1 & tells great stories of Alan Jones & other wild men, however, we were talking about the issue of who would be the fastest if they were all seated in identical machines, interestingly he said that general consensus in the paddock was that Mika Hakkinen would have the edge on all of them & that he was blisteringly fast in a Finnish sort of way. Since 1973...S1, Air Portable's, Defender's, but only my Wolf TUL HS GS remains |
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30th Oct 2018 8:35pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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With you 100% Rashers. The problem is, PR of sportsmen and women has been about for a good generation, and we the public have also had our characters ‘wound in’ by the PC brigade. You can’t do this, you can’t do that etc etc, all for fear of offending a snowflake. One of the best things about the forces, the characters, but I digress. The problem now is the media and public are generally so wet, that when a character does come along they get in a fluster. Look at McGregor. A first class a-hole, (and I’m no fan), but also a character and the public couldn’t cope.
Indeed it could be argued LH has more character than most as he can smile and leap about, but also sulk and strop. But when he does the latter, (and I’d be stroppy if I was a super motivated driver and just been shoved off the track by my main competitor - LH in Barca by Rosberg), or he makes contentious comments post race when a younger more impetuous man, he’s pilloried for it. Can’t win. But the technical nature of motorsport means, I believe, that you’ll get more and more automatons. You can’t do 70 laps in a car within a 10th of a second, lap after lap, analysing your data on your steering wheel, adjusting brake balance between corners, by being a blond haired playboy like Hunt, as much as we all wished we were him. Fat Cog, there’s also an argument that I would be the best driver in the same car. As it happens I am actually as good a driver as Stirling Moss because just like him, I’ve also won no world championships. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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31st Oct 2018 6:41am |
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| pistonbroke Member Since: 03 Sep 2018 Location: Lancashire Posts: 39
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good? talented?....undoubtedly legend?....not for me.
F1 is a sanitized version of what it was and as such I dont watch avidly anymore. In the mansell/senna days the cars were rear wheel drive, manual gearboxes and no traction control with going on 100bhp. There was a lot more driving skill involved then, thats a fact. These days I watch btcc, le mans , TT and BSB, in that you get more driver/rider skill and a better end product for the spectator. He is one of half a dozen very good drivers but he clearly is in the best car with team orders for his team mate to not beat him. |
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31st Oct 2018 12:45pm |
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| Clemmo Member Since: 03 Aug 2012 Location: Mile Oak Posts: 1219 
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Google and Oxford English Dictionary says a Legend is....
"an extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field." Collins dictionary states....... "If you refer to someone as a legend, you mean that they are very famous and admired by a lot of people" Therefore Lewis fits the bill. It matters not whether he is rich, has the best car or the best team or what era he lives in.
Clemmo Make today a little better than yesterday but not so good as tomorrow.... Defender 90 HT............Pangea Green BMW X3 Msport............Carbon Black Mini Electric................Grey. (wow!) MGB Roadster……..........Vermillion 17k miles Honda Benly CD200....Maroon --------McLouis Fusio........7.4m of fun |
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31st Oct 2018 2:03pm |
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| jerseyman Member Since: 21 Jul 2009 Location: Jersey Posts: 279 |
Actually, it's an opinion. |
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31st Oct 2018 2:33pm |
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| pistonbroke Member Since: 03 Sep 2018 Location: Lancashire Posts: 39
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and as clint eastwood said 'opinions are like assholes....everybodies got one'
point stands though....the cars were much more of a handful and depended heavily on the drivers skill as opposed to drivers aids we have now. |
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31st Oct 2018 2:50pm |
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| Clemmo Member Since: 03 Aug 2012 Location: Mile Oak Posts: 1219
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"point stands though....the cars were much more of a handful and depended heavily on the drivers skill as opposed to drivers aids we have now."
Not a point...just an opinion  Make today a little better than yesterday but not so good as tomorrow....
Defender 90 HT............Pangea Green BMW X3 Msport............Carbon Black Mini Electric................Grey. (wow!) MGB Roadster……..........Vermillion 17k miles Honda Benly CD200....Maroon --------McLouis Fusio........7.4m of fun |
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31st Oct 2018 3:00pm |
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| pistonbroke Member Since: 03 Sep 2018 Location: Lancashire Posts: 39
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jesus wept...pedantry rules ok
its just my opinion for what its worth, if you think the skill level is the same as it was in senna/mansell era then fine then crack on. |
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31st Oct 2018 3:19pm |
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