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ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Bonatti Grey

The strip down begins, TDCI head-gasket??

I finally got cracking tonight to find out what the hell happend to my 90 over the weekend?

All signs indicate to head gasket, no external coolant leaks, no water in the oil, no oil in the water,
Heater works fine, so pump is ok, but looses 3-4 ltrs of water over 5 miles, then overheats.
No visible vapour from exhaust.

I did whack a load of K-seal through it when we were stranded, and particles of that are visible when I pulled the exhaust manifold and turbo off.

The Puma engine in a Defender is a bit of a lash up to say the least,
It’s shoe horned in there, which doesn’t make it a pleasurable job!
I’m now actualy thinking if it will be easier long term to take it out,
Sort the head out, then refit it?

I think it would be wise to get the head pressure tested, it did get cooked a few times.

I’m finding it tricky finding out if TDCI heads can be skimmed?
Anyone done one?? 🤔
I will also replace the cam chain, camshaft, crank and pump sprockets while I’m in there.

I will keep this updated, as there is very little info regarding H/G failure on a 2.4 TDCI?

First few pictures....

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

Last edited by ian series 1 on 30th Jun 2018 4:29pm. Edited 1 time in total

26th Jun 2018 8:55pm

Ellisboy

Member Since: 13 Oct 2013
Location: Deep South
Posts: 539

1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi CSW Epsom Green

Good luck mate! Hope it’s not too expensive

Stephen.

26th Jun 2018 9:00pm

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

Too late Stephen! 💸💸

80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

26th Jun 2018 9:08pm

zsd-puma

Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Quote:
The Puma engine in a Defender is a bit of a lash up to say the least,

It's just as bad in the Transit, and there's actually more access on a Defender. I think the Puma was actually designed for the Mk3 Mondeo for transverse mounting. Mounted longitudinally in a Transit all the coolant hoses chaff and eventually they spit their coolant out.

26th Jun 2018 10:58pm

williamthedog

Member Since: 29 Dec 2012
Location: south wales
Posts: 3441

I see you got one snapped stud on the exhaust pipe

27th Jun 2018 4:51am

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

zsd-puma wrote:
Quote:
The Puma engine in a Defender is a bit of a lash up to say the least,

It's just as bad in the Transit, and there's actually more access on a Defender. I think the Puma was actually designed for the Mk3 Mondeo for transverse mounting. Mounted longitudinally in a Transit all the coolant hoses chaff and eventually they spit their coolant out.

More access in a Defender,
You having a laugh?
You must be working on a different Defender to mine?

I look after a small fleet of Transits for a company next door, ranging from 2008-2017 they are simple to work on,
From cam chains, to egr valves, replacing them is simple, they are all on big mileage and don’t give much trouble,
Certainly never had hose issues?

The Engine in Defender form is a very different beast, take the aircon/alternator mount on the right hand side,
What a

!!
The daft alloy plate across the cam chain cover, which you have to strip 90% of the engine just to remove that!
Not to mention the snake pit of ill routed hoses and fuel pipes..
I could go on.

Give me the engine in Transit form, in a Transit any day.... 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

27th Jun 2018 5:21am

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

williamthedog wrote:
I see you got one snapped stud on the exhaust pipe

You will always get one!
I will get that with the drill.

80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

27th Jun 2018 5:31am

Natlas

Member Since: 20 Mar 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 460

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Good to see that you continue to boldly go where no man has gone before. (Hope you get back OK!)

Sorry to have missed you at Anglesey.
Cheers, John. 2.2 90 XS
88" Series One
Old Norton

Minerva

27th Jun 2018 7:02am

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

Sounds like you had a good trip John,
We were planning on driving up, but time was not on our side

Hope you got yours sorted

Cheers
Ian 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

27th Jun 2018 7:28am

Fernando

Member Since: 25 Oct 2017
Location: CABA
Posts: 92

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Bonatti Grey

Hola Ian, antes de ir a lo mas dificil, mira el enfriador de gases de escape que esta enkla parte posteriior del motor !!!!
Suerte con el destripe.

27th Jun 2018 9:14am

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

Hola
sí, voy a mirar el mío, gracias por su mensaje

80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

27th Jun 2018 9:23am

hornet

Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 361

Re: The strip down begins.

ian series 1 wrote:

All signs indicate to head gasket, no external coolant leaks, no water in the oil, no oil in the water,
Heater works fine, so pump is ok, but looses 3-4 ltrs of water over 5 miles, then overheats.
No visible vapour from exhaust.

Sort the head out, then refit it?

I think it would be wise to get the head pressure tested, it did get cooked a few times.
I’m finding it tricky finding out if TDCI heads can be skimmed?
Anyone done one?? 🤔

I had to take the same decision a few weeks ago. I went for a new head. If you do not see visable defects, there might be a chance of not detecting a crack when pressure-testing, even in hot water.
My symptoms were the same, but did not loose these amounts of water!

27th Jun 2018 10:26am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17432

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I once had a SAAB 99 with very similar symptoms which turned out to be due to a crack in the exhaust manifold, which was water-jacketed. The crack, which was entirely internal to the manifold and visible only by looking into one of the exhaust passages, allowed coolant to leak directly into the outgoing hot exhaust gasses and out of the tailpipe. It lost water at a starling rate but with absolutely no visible sign of a leak anywhere.

Whilst this clearly cannot happen on the Puma engine, it did make me wonder if it would be possible for an internal leak in the EGR cooler to cause a generally similar effect. i.e., coolant being lost directly into either the inlet or exhaust system and then being expelled through the engine and exhaust.

27th Jun 2018 11:54am

ian series 1

Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

I’m removing it tonight to pressurise it, so we will see?

Just been chatting to my mate in the parts dept at Ford, the cooler is a cool £400 and that’s with 25% discount!
In some ways I’m hoping it’s that, but on the other hand I could without it...

They did say they sell more coolers than head gaskets, but we are talking only 1 or 2 every 6 months or so.
Big thanks to Fernando who has sent some very useful pm’s on the subject

80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.

27th Jun 2018 12:07pm

o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 545

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alaska White

Just a thought, dunno if that's actually doable, maybe you could have blocked the EGR pipe at the exhaust manifold (i.e. before the cooler) and change the hoses to bypass the EGR cooler entirely? That would have lit up the MIL (but I guess it's the least of your concerns at this point) and could confirm if the cooler is faulty/leaking coolant.

But it's probably too late for that now. “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique.
--
2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW
1979 Land Rover Series 3 88"

27th Jun 2018 1:18pm

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