 | Home > Technical > Defender 90 Puma. Bad connection rear of instrument cluster |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372   
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The AS10 immobiliser cannot communicate directly with the engine ECM on the TDCi, since the ECU is CanBus based and the AS10 is not.
The AS10 therefore communicates with the IPAC (instrument cluster) via a proprietary interface, and the IPAC communicates with the engine ECM via CanBus. It is entirely possible - highly likely, in fact - that a poor connection on the IPAC will cause all manner of starting and running problems. |
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22nd Feb 2018 5:19pm |
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| Andy730 Member Since: 12 Dec 2017 Location: Douglas Posts: 45  
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Well, there's another new thing i've learnt
Trying to pinpoint the actual problem is a pain in the bum as it would be fine for a day or so, then would simply fail to start at a random point. Normally an inconvenient place/time as well... 
In an attempt to count things out of the trouble list, i have disabled the passive part of the immobiliser.. My thinking is that 'something' in that bundle of wires & plug is upsetting the immobiliser) It will be interesting to see how it goes over this next day or so... I suspect that i will have have to spend some time on the plug/cable assembly... It would be nice to actually find a broken wire, or burnt connection or something, but i doubt it will be that easy...  Andy
2007 Puma Defender 2005 Volvo S60 T5 (for Sundays) 1998 MGF |
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22nd Feb 2018 5:59pm |
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| ozzie1989 Member Since: 25 Feb 2009 Location: Wales Posts: 282  
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Andy,
I assume you've removed the connector from the instrument cluster to investigate? As you'll have probably found the connector is closed with a locking lever and is very well secured. I'd bet someone may not have known this and tried to remove the plug incorrectly in the past if it has been damaged. I'd start by removing the plug, pulling the wiring forward as far as you can to make sure the cloth tape is intact and it hasn't been chafing on anything behind the dash. Then I'd clean the connector and the receiver with WD40 or AC90 etc. ensuring all the pins are level, re-insert not forgetting to clip it all the way in and test. Failing that one of the wires could be broken inside it's insulation and would need a multimeter along with an understanding of what to expect on each wire to find. Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition) |
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22nd Feb 2018 6:02pm |
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| Andy730 Member Since: 12 Dec 2017 Location: Douglas Posts: 45
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Hi Ozzie,
Yes, had the plug out or off, and have had a good look at both the plug and the socket within the cluster... both looked OK... but it's well worth another look (maybe this weekend) I shall also have a good look at the rest of the loom as it heads off behind the plastic (although i can't help feeling that it will be OK...) I have some switch cleaner somewhere, i shall give that a go as well... As to measuring resistance or continuity of each cable, that's not a problem, it's just knowing where the other end of each wire is...? Andy 2007 Puma Defender 2005 Volvo S60 T5 (for Sundays) 1998 MGF |
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22nd Feb 2018 9:17pm |
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| ozzie1989 Member Since: 25 Feb 2009 Location: Wales Posts: 282
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Exactly the problem Andy...
Maybe someone here has access to the detailed wiring diagrams for this particular area on TOPIx? Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition) |
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22nd Feb 2018 11:36pm |
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| Andy730 Member Since: 12 Dec 2017 Location: Douglas Posts: 45
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Now that would be really nice...
 Andy
2007 Puma Defender 2005 Volvo S60 T5 (for Sundays) 1998 MGF |
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23rd Feb 2018 12:34am |
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| Andy730 Member Since: 12 Dec 2017 Location: Douglas Posts: 45
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Well, it has been a little while, but with the help of a group on facebook, and some knowledgeable people, it seems that my issue is with the instrument cluster itself, possibly a dry joint on the internal PCB.
This fault could be anything, BUT there is also a line in and a line out that are from the immobiliser. The internal fault upsets this immobiliser in/out and thus, arms it and disables the car. There is a good ‘work around’ that stops the car being disabled. I can’t claim this as mine, but it does work for me. It has come from a guy called Pete, and he seems to know his stuff.. See the attached JPG file, it shows that two wires need to be cut on the plug on the rear of the instrument cluster, and then linked together. With this mod done, I can now start & drive my car without problem. BUT… this has still left my with an intermittent fault of the instrument cluster, this fault affects my ignition & oil light, both fuel & temperature gauges and, sometimes the rev counter. The miles trip meter will also reset to zero. I suspect the only fix for that one is to replace the cluster, but at almost £300, I can’t see that happening to soon… Tyres will be the next purchase for me… Hope that this helps someone else…  Click image to enlarge Andy 2007 Puma Defender 2005 Volvo S60 T5 (for Sundays) 1998 MGF |
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21st Apr 2018 5:09pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6605 
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Either the ground (pin 17) or permanent 12V [BATT] (pin 1) of the cluster are dropping out - could be a dry joint at the connector on the PCB.
You may find someone/a company who is willing to repair rather than buy a new cluster. 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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21st Apr 2018 7:47pm |
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| Andy730 Member Since: 12 Dec 2017 Location: Douglas Posts: 45
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Martin,
A circuit diagram of the PCB would be great, but i guess that will be harder to find than reindeer poo.  Andy
2007 Puma Defender 2005 Volvo S60 T5 (for Sundays) 1998 MGF |
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22nd Apr 2018 8:34am |
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| Andy730 Member Since: 12 Dec 2017 Location: Douglas Posts: 45
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I cant help wondering if it is a ground issue as not everything is lost when it goes faulty, sometimes the rev counter drops out and the fuel/temp gauges go off, but the red ignition light comes on. That would seem to indicate that the main ground has disconnected, and a different route is being used for the ignition light. I've also had it where the hand break light comes on, but dull, like half power. I wonder if anyone else has pulled a cluster apart before... Andy 2007 Puma Defender 2005 Volvo S60 T5 (for Sundays) 1998 MGF |
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22nd Apr 2018 10:57pm |
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| RANGER1312 Member Since: 04 Feb 2018 Location: Fylde Coast Posts: 125 
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I have a td5 so different cluster however I think I've got a ground issue on mine resulting in the fuel gauge working intermittently and the diff lock light flickering but dull similar to how you described as if it's half power.
My aerial doesn't work great on my stereo and research advises that ground issues may impact that so tonight's job was to sit down and try and read up on it |
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28th Apr 2018 6:57pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20348
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Earthing issues typically cause multiple issues, best way of checking that is for Earth contiunuity and or adding a temporary Earth or temporary earthing points.
You'd be surprised how many faults can be created by a loose earth. And worth checking them all. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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28th Apr 2018 9:29pm |
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| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1624  
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Yes this is a work around and I think it’s possibly a TSB in Topix iirc as you’ve found with the green and slate wire. The problem is inside the cluster. There’s a guy called Mark that can repair these clusters and test them if you want his details drop me a PM
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28th Apr 2018 9:43pm |
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| RANGER1312 Member Since: 04 Feb 2018 Location: Fylde Coast Posts: 125
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Apologies Andy, I don't want to hijack your thread but didn't want to effectively duplicate the topic in the section, hope this is ok?
Steve please could you expand/ advise more on finding the earth(s) etc. How do I check the continuity and add in temp or new earthing points. TBH I don't even know where to find them  |
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28th Apr 2018 10:51pm |
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