 | Home > Off Topic > Discrimination |
 
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888   
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There's no such thing as positive discrimination, sex, age, colour of your skin, religious beliefs, mental or physical illness etc... none of those should be a factor in determining the best candidate for a role. Positive discrimination is, by definition, also negative discrimination as someone is making a decision that one group is more deserving than another based on a political agenda. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/
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9th Mar 2018 2:46pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110  
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You are right. Positive Discrimination relating to the UK is generally unlawful under the Equality Act of 2010. For instance if an employer hires a person because they have a specific trait such as belonging to a minority or the act of giving benefit to any individuals in society that are often treated unfairly or hiring people to make up a quota such as women, members of smaller racial groups or people with disabilities rather than because he or she is the best candidate would be committing discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. There are one or two exceptions such as allowing employers to discriminate where a particular characteristic, for example, a specific race is necessary for the job and this is called an occupational requirement, An employer is also allowed to take certain steps to assist protected groups which are disadvantaged or under-represented in a particular job, however, this is a limited exception to the prohibition of Positive Discrimination. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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9th Mar 2018 3:13pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4209  
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Positive action is legal, but not mandatory. Businesses use it because they recognise that a more diverse workforce has business benefits and that other means simply will not achieve that. In many cases it's a commercial decision, not a political one. In an ideal world, without conscious and unconscious prejudice, I would agree, it shouldn't be needed. But in a lot of industries that hasn't been the case for so many years (centuries in some cases) that just relying on the normal recruitment process wont address the problem. There are many many people who simply wont apply for jobs in certain industry sectors because they don't believe (with justification in many cases) they will get a fair shot at the job. A company may implement internal processes to ensure a fair recruitment, but the perception still persists, they get few applicants from women or minority groups, and so it would take many many years/decades to address the problem. It is not about picking someone less capable over a more capable candidate just to meet a quota. But, where you have two equally capable candidates, as often happen in big organisations, an employer can choose someone from a minority ethnic group over a white person (for example). This is not a blanket approach to be applied to all job vacancies as matter of course, but something that should be used to address specific problems where a significant increase in staff diversity has been identified and needs to be addressed. Generally speaking, it's probably not something that would work very well for very small businesses either. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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9th Mar 2018 3:17pm |
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| ARC99 Member Since: 19 Feb 2013 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1831 
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You only have to listen to any news buliten on the BBC and the phrase "its the cost of having and older population" is trotted out by NHS staff from cleaner to senior managers, local councilors blame the old for the rise in Council Tax, and any Remoaner who get his or her voice on TV, Radio or face in the papers. Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to  us off.
Richard |
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9th Mar 2018 8:11pm |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283
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I am a male.
Guilty, as charged. I have a white skin. Guilty as charged. I am heterosexual. Guilty as charged. I am getting old. Guilty as charged. So, instead of constantly making me feel guilty for things I have no control over, why don't the liberal fascists just lock me up and throw away the key - or have me put down? For I have now had enough of "the tyranny of the weak over the strong". |
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9th Mar 2018 8:25pm |
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| mick Member Since: 08 Feb 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 2109 
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For me you can be what you want BUT don’t except any special or preferential treatment or go banging on about wanting this and that.
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9th Mar 2018 8:30pm |
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| ginjez Member Since: 18 Sep 2011 Location: huddersfield Posts: 1763 
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Really? Do you know anyone who's dyslexic or suffers with learning difficulties? |
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9th Mar 2018 8:33pm |
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| mick Member Since: 08 Feb 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 2109
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That’s another thing it’s every body else’s fault bare those whose fault it is. I had to tell a customer who was winging about her liveries to stand back and have a good look at herself ( she didn’t look like that )  |
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9th Mar 2018 8:34pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4209
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But for many of the things being discussed, people don’t have a choice yet they are disadvantaged still. And very often they don’t complain. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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9th Mar 2018 8:37pm |
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| DonH2000 Member Since: 12 Jan 2015 Location: North Kent Posts: 551 
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I have nothing to say except...........................
On 2nd thoughts, best to say nothing....... Cheers Don. |
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10th Mar 2018 11:53am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816  
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Diatribe Warning:
I absolutely agree with equality in all its guises. Sex, colour, age, etc should be no differentiator, we're all humans. But I also believe that we should not positively descriminate, nor should we 'dumb down', nor should we force percentages. I caught a few (FEW) moments of Sky's 100 Women talk show during International Woman's Day presented by the ever vocal, opinionated, bitter, chip on her shoulder Kay Burley. One stat was that only 25% of men had seen fit to change their attitude towards women since the recent Weinstein sex scandal. Most panelists and the audience (all women, but I noticed the cmerman was male), were 'dissapointed', 'saddened', 'shocked' by this stat. No-one cared to say, 'well actually Kay, I think most men do treat women with respect, and therefore why should this statistic shock us?'. I'm not saying that IS the case, but instantly the assumption by all 100+ women was that we men are ALL bad and ALL mistreat women so after Weinstein the majority of us should change our ways. 
Additionally, they talked to a female MP who sited numbers of females in Parliament and that it doesn't represent the population. Nor does the Police, or the FTSE100 or the Armed Forces. But why should it? It would be nice if it did, but they never ask themselves 'do 50% of the female population (or in the case of race, black, asian etc) want to be doing job X, Y or Z?' Perhaps they don't. As is often the case in a marriage, I have a small solid group of male friends, but in terms of numbers most are women via Mrs Grenadier's network. If I did a straw poll, I doubt very much that 50% of them or even anything close to it, would have EVER entertained the idea of joining the Army. These are bright, successful, sporty women who almost universally in my opinion would have made excellent soldiers. What's more, I had a great time serving and always portayed the Army in a positive light. So, even if they made publicised changes to gender equality in the Services I simply do not think our female friends who have suddenly wanted to join, so by laws of averages, they will ever get to parity, nor should they. And don't get me started on equality of pay in Grand Slam tennis. You want equal play, play five sets... As another example, Mrs Grenadier worked in Private Banking. Always positive about the way she was treated, but also brutally honest about the overly agressive females at the top of the food chain whom she despised, and the women who worked for 10 years before retiring to have kids, whose decisions she respected. I'm not saying it is perfect in a famously male, testosterone fuelled industry, but sometimes things just are what they are. In terms of pay, she was absolutely equal to any of her male colleagues. So, all in all, I absolutely get equality. I am fiercely proud of Mrs Grenadier and all her achievements and would not have ever wanted her to come off second best just because of her gender. But I also wish the angry liberals driving the agenda, would be honest about real life and what people (both sides of the sexual spectrum and across all colours, races, etc) want. And finally, if they want equality, make it just that. If a woman wants to join the Infantry, RM, or SF, good luck to her. But she must absolutely do 100% of the same tests, come-what-may. And this isn't just lab tests or those done in the gym. This includes the very basic infanteering requirement, Light Role. Women have proven themselves on day patrol In Iraq and Afghanistan, on foot and in APCs, from FOBs. But if she (or indeed he) cannot carry 65kgs for days/weeks at a time, not eating properly, sodden, cold, gradually wearing down, then she (or he) should not be allowed to join. This is very different to the soldiering seen in the Middle East over the past 15 years ans sited as the evidence women can cut it on the front line. I have no issue with their intelligence, capability, fitness, aptitude, desire or indeed willingness to pull the tigger (as is often used as an excuse by dinosaur soldiers not wanting women on the front line). Nor do I think all women are emotionallly weak. More than enough evidence to prove this is not the case. But heavy loads, miles from camp, weeks at a time, is our bread and butter. We can hope (sadly) that every future war will be vehicle or FOB based, but we must be able, like in the Falklands, to get down to the lowest, dirtiest, toughest form of soldeiring. Genuinely (and remembering I have both served with some very fit women, plus live in a region where I am regulalry out-skied, climbed, toured, cycled, run by unbelievably fit women), I've not met one contender who could keep up the weight and the duration in adverse conditions. Many advocates of frontline infantry-women use examples of Norway or Israel etc, but their roles, tactics and training differ entirely. As an infantryman for 10 years I know the difference between doing the Combat Fitness Test (12km, combats, boots, rifle, 20kg/44lb bergen, in 1hr50 or 1h30 on Officer/Sergeants Battle Camps) and being on exercise/Ops for weeks at a time, carrying all your kit, water, bedding, rations, ammo, comms, plus mortar greenies, link ammo, NVGs, etc etc. That's the test that should matter, NOT in-camp fitness tests. On the flip side, equality should mean I be allowed into a nightclub for free, jumping the queue and being given free champagne all night, just because of my good looks and skimpy attire.... Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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10th Mar 2018 12:50pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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Some interesting replies on here, well worth the reading.
Why did I start this thread? Main reason being a female Labour MP going on about sex equality and AWS (all women short lists for 50% of Labours 'winnable seats') Now unless the other 50% of 'winnable' seats were AMS (all men shortlists) this policy seems discriminational against men to me. Personally when it comes down to the ability to do a job of work I am not interested in a persons sex, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religious fervour etc. All I am interested in is their ability to carry out a particular job. Now I have no idea i.e. I am guessing that in nursery/infant schools the majority of teachers/staff are female. Now should we 'discriminate' by having 50% of vacancies in those schools men only applicants? Is it important or is it political correctness to have the correct proportion of sex/sexual orientation/age/ethnic origin to match the general UK population. Personally when I take my Defender to a garage, all I am interested in is are they capable of doing that job, when I go to hospital is that team of people capable of doing the job on me correctly. Sorry but all I am interested in is ability to do the job in hand rather then exactly where they are situated in social/ethnic/sexual spectrum of the UK population Brendan |
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11th Mar 2018 9:32pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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Seems there is something very wrong with this forum. Give or take, 99% of its members seem male.
Martin, you may have to take positive action to force some balance and bring some political correctness into def2.
I can’t really help, because the other half of my perfectly gender balanced mariage has not the slightest interest to join. 
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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12th Mar 2018 5:11am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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Eric, where have you got that figure from?
Active forum member gender research or from researching the signed up members list? Now there is a group called LR Ladies which as far as I understand is 100% membership is of the female gender. As far as I am concerned just another group of like minded people getting together to discuss their interests. The fact that I am not eligible to join does not worry me. Nor am I eligible to join the Black Policemen asssociation as I am not black nor a policeman. Brendan |
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12th Mar 2018 8:26am |
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