 | Home > Technical > Defender 2006 TD5 Throttle Peddle Problem ...... |
 
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48   
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Hi Fergus & Roel
I'm a convert !! at the moment my Defender is in pieces on the drive moving the ecu - nice design Roel  you are completely correct better to get a wet bottom than a wet ecu !
Fergus - you say there are two earth points, I've found the main earth cable from the battery to the left hand side of the gearbox but I can't find any other cables off the gearbox or transfer box. In the box under the driver seat just below the ecu is an earth cable coming out of the loom and it's attached to a tag on the bodywork ! Did you find another earth cable somewhere ? Cheers Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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3rd Feb 2018 7:31pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hi,
OK so it will be these two points .....  Click image to enlarge I only found the chassis one when I grovelled around on the floor There now all nice and clean ..... TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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4th Feb 2018 10:18am |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hi Guy's
So the ECU has moved along with the fuses and the Defender still starts and runs 
I removed the earth lead taking both connections off and wire brushing them and bolting it all back together. I also run the black wire that comes out of the loom next to the ECU and normally connects to a stud in the driver underseat box and wired that direct to a sensible earth point so it does not rely upon the chassis - this might be a red herring as I think that's a general earth point for windows and silly things like that but it's got to be better than the chassis point. One interesting item point - the red connector on the ecu snaps in and the plastic catch locks immediately. The Black one is a little different and is stiffer to push into the socket and the clip does not 'snap' into place. That's why you can see black cable ties on the ECU they wrap round the two connectors and hold them in place. It's not as neat as Roel's mate since I don't have the ability to bend and cut metal but I've also got a cubby box in the way. Click image to enlarge wish me luck - I'll let you know how I get on. TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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4th Feb 2018 7:58pm |
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| MadTom Member Since: 10 Sep 2013 Location: Olomouc Posts: 617  
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Check that you have orange rubber seal in both connectors. This make them waterproof, and bit hard to connect. They have the same geometry with only different key tabs, so they should work the same way. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo
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5th Feb 2018 7:57am |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hello All,
Well this is massively disappointing …. 
Couple of weeks ago I got everything back and moved the ecu like Roel and did the earth connections that Fergus has done both of which are really sensible things, I also took note of MadTom and checked the rubbers on the ecu sockets and got that improved and the ecu is now very much in the dry. I’d also swapped out the throttle peddle, before I did the earth cable cleaning and the ecu move, for one I bought on ebay, almost immediately got the engine light on so I’m pretty happy it’s not the throttle peddle. So I start driving around and do quite a few miles with no problems (hurra) and I was tempted to update this posting but I don’t, wait and see I thought. upto now the ecu light has only ever come on when I coasted to a halt at a junction or such. Anyway I’ve just been driving round the lanes out the back of where I live and I’m driving through bigger and bigger puddles of water as I begin to convince myself that it’s all fixed and I go through this rather large puddle on the left hand side of the road – water everywhere and 20 yards down the road as I’m doing 30mph the engine light comes on ! I coast to a halt – engine still running, press the throttle and nothing happens. Turn the ignition off and wait 5 seconds, turn it on again and start the engine – 2 seconds later the engine light comes on again and the throttle does not work. Try the engine off and on trick again, again 2/3 seconds later engine light on and no throttle. Third time I try this engine starts and throttle works, off we go again. I carry on home and drive through more smaller puddles no problems. I get home and hang the Hawkeye on the ecu and I’ve got the driver demand error back ….. The only thing I haven’t changed is the physical cable between the throttle peddle and the ecu plug. I have a new throttle plug and a new ecu plug – I’m considering changing the cable with a new plug at the throttle end and cutting into the wiring loom 2” away from the ecu plug. It goes without saying I’m interested in anything you guys have to say on the topic TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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19th Feb 2018 3:48pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
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You can push the small connectors out off the ecu plug with a very small screw driver so you won't have any additional connections in the cable. Roel
1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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19th Feb 2018 6:58pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hi Roel,
well I did not know that ..... I'm going to give it one more try on cleaning the connector before i go down the route of changing the cable ..... I'm sure there something just a bit intermittent and I feel it's just coincidence that water is involved today .... it did it once and it's really wet over here at the moment ..... just really irritating .... I thought I'd cracked it  TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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19th Feb 2018 7:11pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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right chaps ....
Thanks for the info Roel, now on closer inspection I've dismantled the black ecu socket on the wiring loom and cleaned it all with contact cleaner and a small wire brush then re-assembled it all. I also took the throttle peddle socket on the loom apart and cleaned that as well. Now I'll drive around some more and report back !! Cheers for your patience and comments Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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24th Feb 2018 5:01pm |
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| fergyreid Member Since: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 10 
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Martin,
I would check continuity between the ECU plug and the TPS. Easy to do with a multimeter. Look at wire resistance for all the wires as they are all the same length etc. If you see one value is out of line then this may help diagnose. (Be aware that in the ECU plug there are multiple same coloured wires so you need the wiring diagram to make sure you have the correct one for the TPS.) Secondly, i know you said you've cleaned your earths but having seen your truck i would suggest putting a hard earth to the battery from the ECU. A good quality multi strand cable capable of carrying decent amperage soldered to the ECU earth will be much better than earthing to the body. With low voltages corrosion can quickly cause the issues you are describing. I laid a wire direct from the battery terminal to the ECU earth point, although i will be directly wiring the ECU earth to the battery in the future. This shouldn't take you too long now you have greatly improved ECU access 
Cheers, Ferg Edit: I've seen the hard-wiring the ecu earth suggestion elsewhere (Think it was made by Ian at IRB developments). I would say that my truck is running alot better having put a direct earth in. The injectors share the earth - i would say my truck is running smoother on tick over and i haven't had a TPS issue. |
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2nd Mar 2018 12:19pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hi Ferg
Thats very interesting indeed. I nearly changed the cable between the peddle and the ecu last weekend but decided to really clean the connectors as I discovered the socket could be dismantled. If I get the fault again I'll measure the resistance as you suggest and see if the cable needs changing. The earth suggestion is a great one. In the box under the drivers seat theres a single wire coming out of the loom that goes to the chassis but nothing else - this I connected to the earth block i have which is a really solid connection. Are you saying I should connect the body of the ECU to the battery earth ?? I had been thinking about doing that as well but I haven't done that yet. I'm trying to not do loads of things at the same time because at some point in the future this thread might well prove useful to somebody else and i'd really like to know what actually fixes it ! be good to know exactly what you have connected your earth cable to. Cheers Martin PS are you having fun in the snow out your way ?? TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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2nd Mar 2018 2:40pm |
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| fergyreid Member Since: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 10
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Hi Martin,
Think about your earth path back to battery. In my case it was: Earth from the ECU (Black wire that had a ring connector on it) -> RHS of transfer box -> LHS of transfer box -> earth cable back to battery. By putting in a cable direct from the battery negative to the earth point, i've cut out joints and corrosion. I will eventually solder this cable directly to the black earth cable from the ECU to cut out all chances of corrosion. From what you are saying, your black earth wire from the ECU is going to your earth block... which then goes to the battery? Or is your earth block just mounted to the body or chassis? Ideally, you want to go from the black ECU earth cable direct to battery negative. This removes all joints and corrosion etc. If your earth block is mounted to the body, then this utilises the earths at back door to chassis and the bulkhead to chassis by the bell housing on the RHS (More chances of voltage breakdown and signal issues.) The "clearer" the path is for the earth to get back to battery, the less resistance and the clearer the voltage and so sensor signal... As a test... Take a jump lead, clamp to negative battery terminal, and clamp the other end to the earth from your ECU and see how it behaves... You don't need to earth the ECU body as there are no earths attached to it... The ECU earth comes out of the black plug. Pins 1,2,24,25&29 should all have a black wire and they're spliced together with a ring terminal on the end (This is the earth you are after!) Hope this helps? Ferg |
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2nd Mar 2018 3:04pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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ok, we are both barking up the same tree.
I've got an earth block in my chubby box which has a 35mm2 cable running direct to the neg of the batteries. I've taken the black cable with the ring connector in the picture and directly connected it to my earth block so in essence it's direct onto the battery and I did this as I moved the ecu. so I think I've already done the mod your suggesting. Click image to enlarge I did not appreciate that theres a number of earths on the black ecu socket that all tie together but if that becomes the ring in the picture then I'm onto a winner. Only problem is I've had the problem since I moved this earth, my money at the moment is still on the connections in the black ecu plug or your observation about the cable between the black ecu plug and the throttle. If it does it again I suspect it will be new cable time ! Cheers for your persisting help .... it's most appreciated Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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2nd Mar 2018 3:23pm |
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| fergyreid Member Since: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 10
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Hi Martin,
We're on the same page and sounds like you've got a good earth. I presume all the connections are clean and done up tight etc? (Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs here) If so then i would check the continuity on the cables between ECU and TPS if you get more problems. Is the TPS you bought brand new out of curiosity? If you are going to rewire then may be worth getting a new plug for the TPS (Can be troublesome). Jay Simkins at Simtek UK was very helpful when i spoke to him, and they can supply the plugs etc. Intermittent faults are the worst unfortunately! Cheers, Ferg |
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2nd Mar 2018 4:17pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039
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I had a small intemittent problem the last few days. Including lack off power. Stopping and starting the 90 again solved the prblem for a while. I have an old style nanocom permanently on my dash and this lost connection with my ecu when the problem happened.
I run a psi powerbox that is controlled by a small piece of chinese electronics and that shows my the TPS voltage from track one. The psi powerbox only kicks in at full throttle. The voltage meter showed strange voltages. sometimes 0.5-0.6 V at idle but also sometimes higher even 4.5 V when the engine light came on and I lost reaction on my throttle pedal. Shaking the black ecu plug made the values change. After some thinking and looking at the wireing diagramm Black ecu plug pin 26 is the negative of the TPS. I thougt that might make bad contact. Pulling a little on that cable made the small plug insert to break.  Luckily I have an old engine loom lying around so I took a other insert and replaced the broken one and I started measuring. That pin 26 is also connected to earth.
It looks like changing the insert solved my problem but I also made a extra cable on it that I am going to play with and connect it straight to earth to see if that makes a difference. Roel 1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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2nd Mar 2018 5:12pm |
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