 | Home > Technical > how does the hand brake work |
 
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4731  
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 Click image to enlarge 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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2nd Jun 2016 9:23pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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Thread revival... I still have trouble understanding how this all works. Yesterday when I was at my tire center for installing the winter wheels, the truck was on the hydraulic lift. The hydro lift used supports the truck on 4 chassis blocks, so all four wheels where dangling freely in the air. I had pulled up the handbrake after driving onto the lift, but when I tried to turn the wheels by hand, they all 4 could be turned freely without any resistance. Handbrake was pulled up to where it normally bites.
When back from the tire center, I tried the handbrake again on a sloping road, and with 4 clicks it quickly came to a full stop from slow speed, and the handbrake would hold the truck perfectly in that spot. So how does this work exactly, why could I turn the wheels by hand when up in the air? Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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28th Oct 2017 8:38am |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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Thanks, makes it clear. I obviously did not check the opposite wheel when turning one side.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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28th Oct 2017 12:27pm |
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| DieselBeast Member Since: 27 Sep 2017 Location: UK Posts: 33 
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The differential in the rear (And front) axle will allow one wheel to turn one way and the opposite wheel on that axle the opposite way. It's all to do with science of the diff. Planets, suns and planet carriers... etc.
If you tried to turn both wheels the same way (With a friend on the other wheel) Then the drive would transfer to the prop and then the handbrake would stop the prop from turning. |
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29th Oct 2017 5:11pm |
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| Justtellme Member Since: 23 Nov 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 310  
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Isnt it because Land Rover copied the GPW/MB design so faithfully?....LOL Yes...I have a 1942 GPW..... |
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29th Oct 2017 6:13pm |
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| L90 PGC Member Since: 05 Jan 2017 Location: Gloucester Posts: 2  
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2006 Defender 90Td5 XS:
Frequently tow a horse in a trailer and at 500kgs the standard handbrake was not holding. Installed the X-brake which holds on a very steep gradient, but makes a high-pitched chattering noise. Slight application of the handbrake and serene quiet returns (for a Defender!). Talked to my MoT 4x4 garage and they say the disk brake shoes are chattering as they are loose in their holders. Is this BS or possible? Could superglue or silicone be applied to stop the chattering? Appreciate any thoughts.  |
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19th Feb 2018 4:25pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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Sounds entirely feasible. On normal disc brake setups there can be anti rattle clips, springs on the retaining pins, or rubber buffer pads to go on each end of the calipers.
A dab or two of copperslip on the rear faces of the pads may also help. Glue or silicone has no place in a solution though. I'd actually recommend this: Click image to enlarge i don't know the design of the x eng kit - maybe there is something wrong, damaged or missing with your setup. Are the pads fitted correctly or excessively worn? I'd check with x eng and see if they are aware of any issues and have a fix. |
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19th Feb 2018 5:40pm |
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| L90 PGC Member Since: 05 Jan 2017 Location: Gloucester Posts: 2
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Many thanks Supacat, not a fan of silicone and will try your recommendation
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20th Feb 2018 8:40am |
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| Scott R Member Since: 21 Jan 2016 Location: Northampton Posts: 25 
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To be honest the x-brake is rubbish for road vehicles, constantly needing adjustment and pads wear very quickly. They are really only any good for an off road vehicle in my opinion.
If they aren’t already the pads need gluing in to stop to stop them rubbing on the disc, that stops them chattering and wearing out prematurely. Having them too tightly adjusted also wears the pads out quicker than normal. Properly cleaned and adjusted the standard drum set up is very effective and I’ve not had any issue with them. It’s only when playing in deep sloppy mud and water that they become useless. |
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20th Feb 2018 6:38pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1851 
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^^^^ just to add an opposite perspective. I got my car about 17 years ago. Not long after, I started to get fed up with the handbrake catching as the car coasted to a stop at traffic lights or junctions. Tried adjusting it for a while but soon decided to fit an X-eng brake. I don't know when they came onto the market, and my dates might be a bit hazy, but my guess is that it must be comfortably over 10 years since I fitted it - and have never touched it since - it just works. It has needed adjusting for a while, and I did that about a month ago using the adjustment on the cable. Now it holds on just 4 or 5 clicks of the lever as opposed to needing all the travel. But even then, once on, it held fine. So that'll be 10+ MOTs it's got through for next to no maintenance.
Definitely not saying you're wrong - we'll all have different experiences with our LRs - but for me it's been a great bit of kit. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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20th Feb 2018 7:40pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 
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most of the problem with the standard handbrake happens when someone has belted the sides of the drum with a hammer to get it off or the shoes have been left for years so the lining falls off. So the linings catch or and the drum goes egg shaped. Or it all seizes up internally, so it either doesn't release or doesn't apply properly.
Thing is it gets like that, then someone swaps it all for some fancy after market disc conversion, only to declare that it's so much better. The same experience would have likely been true from just replacing the standard parts with new. Looked after and well maintained the standard one is pretty damn good, the initial lurch as it takes up the slack in the shoes is always disconcerting though. |
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20th Feb 2018 10:42pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295 
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Hello All
I decided to add to this existing thread rather than 'separate out' with my question. Can someone confirm the procedure to correctly adjust the Handbrake on a Puma... 
The reason for asking is that my 90 currently works OK at 3 clicks of the handbrake lever, but it can go to 4 with not much more effort, so I want to make the Handbrake activate earlier... 2-3 clicks. The Haynes Manual (I know...  ) for the Puma (2007-2016) is a touch ambiguous
in the description given and terminology used. It would be good to hear the right procedure to do this. Inside the Cabin there appears No adjustment at this end of the Handbrake Cable... Click image to enlarge Underneath the vehicle the Handbrake Cable appears to have adjustment with a 21mm Nut (left) and 16mm Nut (right) Click image to enlarge I'm currently set up, with all four wheels off the ground, so your help would be welcome... 
Thanks SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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4th Oct 2023 2:49pm |
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| piechipsandpeas Member Since: 12 May 2021 Location: Albany, Western Australia Posts: 219  
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Hi Skip
The play in the handbrake cable (and the number of clicks to engagement) is adjusted by the 2 nuts in your lower photo. However, before adjusting the cable on the rear of the seat box make sure you have adjusted the shoes in the drum using the adjuster bolt on the lower front of the drum (17mm socket). With handbrake off, tighten to 25Nm, then back off 1.5 turns and check drum rotates by hand. Once that is done adjust the play in the cable by turning the larger nut in your lower photo whilst holding the smaller one steady. |
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5th Oct 2023 3:09am |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295
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Hello piechipsandpeas
Thank you... Why couldn't Haynes say that... 
I got there after concluding it must be as you described. The Handbrake Cable adjustment via the 21 and 16mm Nuts is quite tricky to accomplish with thoughts ranging from 'you need to be a contortionist for this one' and I wonder if my wife could be persuaded to tackle this, (with slimmer arms). Eventually I found holding the 21mm Nut static and winding 'out' (back) the 16mm Nut over the top of the Gearbox / Transfer box I got to 2 clicks of the Handbrake Lever with just a little movement towards 3 clicks. Overall it now feels a more positive engagement with that 'perceived' extra security if I'm parked on a slope. I have (being old school) always left a parked vehicle in gear and if necessary with the front wheels turned in towards the curb... but then you read about Defenders occasionally getting stuck in 1st when parked... don't you love them...
Anyway thanks again for your help. Drum / Shoe adjustment Nut Tightened to 25NM (Clockwise) and then backed off 540 degrees (1 1/2 turns) brought me back to almost exactly the same spot... overall result for me was this nut being tightened by 30 degrees. Click image to enlarge SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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5th Oct 2023 8:51am |
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