 | Home > Technical > Defender 2006 TD5 Throttle Peddle Problem ...... |
 
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48   
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Hi Everybody,
That’s very interesting MadTom, I dropped in to CSK today and we tried the same tests on a 55 plate Defender that Chris has lying around and I got the same results as I get on my Defender ie 0-10v on the Driver Demand Sup reading on my Hawkeye. My plan at the moment is to rig up a multimeter on the pedal as per Roels suggestion when I get the Defender back and then when I get the fault again I can read the actual values. I can completely see and understand the bit about all three readings should never be above 5v as Geobloke suggests but I'm also deeply suspicious of the earth around the ECU and the wiring through the tunnel, the ECU is in a really stupid place to cap it all off ! Still looks like Fergus has pretty much the same setup as me and gets the 10v reading along with Chris's Defender, CSK have mapped my ECU so I'll see if I can explore MadToms observations about ECU's - Fergus - what do you know about your ECU ... has it been mapped ?? Now I have to wait two weeks till I can try out all these things ..... Lastly thanks to you all for taking the time to document your views and experiences, I'm determined to understand and get to the bottom of this lot and I fear I can only do this with everybody chipping in !! Cheers Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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15th Jan 2018 7:57pm |
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| fergyreid Member Since: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 10 
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Hi Martin,
My 2006 90 is on a stock ECU... It's only just covered 62k miles and is "un-fettled" - it's my pride and joy and certainly not had a hard life. I am going to look at the voltages on my dad's 110 this weekend for reference - his is on a stock ECU too. I've got a feeling that the earths are my issue now... this problem re-emerged having been through some flood water and i'm now suspecting that some corrosion has built up and is creating resistance which is causing a voltage spike - causing my ECU to sense an "overboost." I've read a lot of the disco td5 forums and this seems to go hand in hand with bad TPS wiring or bad earths. Equally i am not 100% trusting of my diagnostics as it is OBD rather than specific LR - it seems hard to believe that it can be overboosting on tickover on a stock map. Either way, its now become a challenge to get to the bottom of this!! Bloody things!! Cheers, Fergus |
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17th Jan 2018 10:24am |
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| MadTom Member Since: 10 Sep 2013 Location: Olomouc Posts: 617  
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One thing - the 5V supply voltage for the pedal is derived in the ECU with some linear stabilizer (like 7805), and the ECU need at least 8V to work (during cranking the battery voltage can drop). There is no way to generate 10V with this system. There is also a big DC-DC switch converter in ECU to produce approx. 85V, but it is only for powering the injectors.
I think the 10V reading is because of a fail in software of the ECU or in the diagnostic. Internally the ECU work with AD counts - something like 0 to 1024 - result of the AD converter. The AD converter is a part of the CPU and it uses 5V as a reference voltage, so for standard sensor the useful voltage range is 0,5 to 4,5V. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo  |
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17th Jan 2018 1:50pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hi MadTom & Fergus
I've come to the same conclusion and when I get my Defender back I'm going to get my fluke out and I bet it confirms this. Mine and Fergus's and the one at CSK have this same feature of 10v but Roel and I believe yourself have readings upto 5v Fergus - what are you using as a diagnostic product to read the Driver Demand Supply value ?? might it be a Hawkeye ? Cheers Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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17th Jan 2018 2:36pm |
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| fergyreid Member Since: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 10
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Hi Martin,
I'm using "auto-com CDP+" on a laptop. I am dubious of the fault codes its giving as its generic, but can't see how it's reading incorrect voltages from live data? I have read elsewhere the tracks are 0-5v and the demand supply is 0-10v. I will check my dad's 110 as i said previous and share my findings... Can't see how some are 0-5v and some are 0-10v unless there's a difference in measurement method? How do you find your hawkeye? I have been looking at that or the nanocom.... slightly swayed by the nanocom's more advanced functionality. Cheers, Fergus |
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18th Jan 2018 4:03pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hi Fergus,
I'm with MadTom at the moment on the ecu verses the actually reading's but I havent got a Defender to measure till next weekend !! Hawkeye - well I've only owned it for a couple of weeks so I really haven't managed to play around with it too much yet, what it is tho is unlocked for all the LandRover models, it appears robust in build and when I looked around the forums before buying it was between Hawkeye and Nanocom More next weekend when I get a Defender back ! Cheers Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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21st Jan 2018 9:00am |
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| fergyreid Member Since: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 10
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Hi Martin,
Another weekend of lying under the Land Rover. Having proven continuity, swapped known working parts over etc i went to the last thing i hadn't checked... Earths!! Long story short, i cleaned up the earth from battery negative to chassis and gearbox to start. (Its one piece with a crimp at the end and halfway) You need 2*13mm to remove from chassis and a 17mm socket on extension to get off the back of gearbox/transfer. This is all on the LHS of the transfer box as you lie under the bloody thing (your head towards back). Give it all a good scrub with a coarse and fine wire brush, before liberally applying copper grease and doing back up tight. I then moved to the RHS of the transfer box and using a 10mm socket on extension over the chassis leg undid the bolt that earths the ECU and other electrical loom from front of bulkhead out of the side of the tranfer box. (the bolt is perpendicular to main chassis leg), cleaned up and again liberally applied copper grease. Before assembling back together i also took a run of 35Amp black cable, put a ring crimp on either end and soldered crimps onto cable for belt and braces effect! I then assembled back onto M8 bolt with 10mm head in following order: ECU earth, crimp ring on new black cable, 2*earths from bulkhead and then did up tight back into side of transfer box. Next, thread new earth cable through grommet on side of battery box with the existing large earth cable and put the other soldered on ring crimp into the battery clamp bolt (obviously not just put it on but secure with the nut!) Fired up the 90 and gave it a rev... no fault codes... I've done 20-30 miles this weekend, took it through half a metre of water, jumped on and off the throttle, basically done everything i could to get the warning light and so far no problems! (Half elation, half frustration at this point!) I'm going to run with it and see how it goes, although i have noted the truck is running better and seems more responsive?! This may be the placebo effect of no management light! On reflection i will probably directly earth the ECU to the battery through said cable and remove the issues associated by using ring terminals and bolting to transfer box. From experience, having read the internet and more, there is a lot of posts mentioning the earth for the ECU being in the driver seat box on a defender... its not there on mine, it comes out the loom above the transfer box. I would strongly recommend getting this earthed properly... For reference, i also checked the TPS readouts on my dads 110 (no management light) and rechecked mine. The below were all taken from a generic OBD reader with ignition in 2nd position. Engine not running. Ranges were from idle to flat out on the throttle pedal: 2006 90: Demand 1: 0.53 - 4.73v Demand 2: 4.66 - 0.51v Demand Supply: 0.00-10v 2005 110: Demand 1: 0.61 - 4.69v Demand 2: 4.45 - 0.48v Demand Supply: 0.00 - 10v Hopefully i've offered some help? If not then at least some hope! Cheers, Fergus |
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22nd Jan 2018 5:08pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Hi Fergus,
That sounds brilliant ...... I do hope thats sorted your issues. Friday I hope to collect mine and over the weekend I'm certainly going to try your earth comments out and I'll let you know how I get on. in the mean time .... happy wadding in half a meter of water ! Cheers Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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22nd Jan 2018 5:56pm |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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Great news
 Earths are hands down the cause of at least 75% of electrical gremlins...
Really glad it appears to be sorted. |
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22nd Jan 2018 8:32pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
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What I don't understand is that a 2003 and later td5's should have a 3 pot throttle pedal so you should have demand 1,2,3 and a power.
So it could be a Hawkeye problem. Bur Earth points are important. My Ecu doesn't live under the seat anymore minr sits at the bulk head between/behind the seats. So I get wet pants before the Ecu is getting wet. Roel 1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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22nd Jan 2018 9:31pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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Ha Ha ... got my baby back ..... and had the throttle problem on the way home.
 Click image to enlarge Today I changed the throttle peddle and have driven around as bit with no engine management light or throttle problems so far. I really don't want to change loads of things at the same time so I'm going to see what happens with this one change. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge [/img] TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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28th Jan 2018 7:20pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039
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Looks nice.
Roel
1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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28th Jan 2018 8:09pm |
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| Mc071963 Member Since: 06 Jan 2018 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 48
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well that didn't last long ......
took it down the road this morning and got to Hoddesdon - coasted up to the roundabout and the engine light came on, turned the ignition off ... waited 5 seconds and started it all up again all ok. next on the list is clean the earth's on the gearbox ...... Roel - as you can see theres plenty of space for the ecu and fuses on the mesh on the inner roll cage .... my ecu may well be under the seat right now but it's not going to be there for long !! where did you put yours ? and did you extend the cables or just move it to the bulk head ? Cheers Martin TD5 90 in Hertfordshire |
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29th Jan 2018 10:37am |
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| fergyreid Member Since: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 10
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Smart looking bit of kit Martin!
The loom runs along the LHS of the gearbox before crossing over the trasnfer box to the RHS seatbox. If you unplug your ECU, remove the loom and re route up from the LHS of the seatbox then it should let the connectors get within the cab and up onto the bulkhead. Get the earths done. Turns out copper grease isn't actually a conductor, but you can get electrical grease that is - probs worth speaking to local motor factors and getting some if you are going to give the earths a clean and rebuild. Hope you get it sorted. Fergus |
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30th Jan 2018 4:12pm |
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