blackwolf wrote:

lambert.the.farmer wrote:

There's always recourse to the courts, an insurance company would have all on to convince a judge that having a different stereo or a cleanable air filter had any causal link to you getting rammed on a junction for example and that they shouldn't be covering your damage.

Actually that is not the issue at all.

The issue is that you have a contract with the insurance company which requires you to provide them with the information they ask for in a complete and honest manner, and they in return provide you with an agreed level of insurance cover (of course an outrageous bundle of cash is also involved). If you do not declare modifications after you have, by signing up to the policy, accepted their terms and conditions, then you are in breach of contract which in turn means that they no longer have to provide the agreed level of cover.

So if you have modified anything about your vehicle and failed to tell them, and you make a claim, and they find out that you have undisclosed modifications, then they are under no obligation to provide the full level of cover that you think you're entitled to. This does not necessarily mean that you are driving without insurance but it is likely to mean that you only have very basic third party cover (what is often known as "RTA Cover"). It doesn't matter that the modification in no way contributed to the incident which resulted in the claim, it is the fact that the modification put you in breach of contract with the insurer that is the problem.

The specific example scenario above ("rammed at a junction" ) suggests that you are not at fault and the other party is wholly to blame, in which case if you are lucky enough to be hit by an insured driver their insurance should pay out and this shouldn't be affected by your modifications. You could find however that your insurer declines to pursue the claim on your behalf as a result of undisclosed modifications.

The bottom line is that when you sign on the dotted line you are agreeing to tell them about any and all modifications, not just the ones you think make affect the insured risk.

zsd-puma wrote:

BLACK LAB wrote:

The guy from the RAC told me during our lenghtly discussion that even something as basic as changing existing lights to LED's or adding spot lights is a modification . Even adding decals or stickers is a modification . Upgrading stereo equipment from basic factory stereos is a modification . Upgraded seats and steering wheels etc - All classed as modifications.
With the seemingly endless add-on's and upgrades that is out there for us Defender enthusiasts I thought it prudent to mention this on here as I dont want anybody being caught out because of some areshole insurance investigator or snide insurance company that would use these seemingly standard modifications nowadays to wriggle out honoring their side of a contract should the worst happen .

A modification is just that, anything that modifies the vehicle from how it left the factory. These might modify the vehicle's, appearance, performance or capabilities. It's hardly insurance jargon it's basic English. I really don't understand your surprise that adding spot lights, stickers, changing the stereo, changing the lights, completely changing the seats and interior would make it a modified vehicle. It seems pretty damn obvious.

I have to be honest some of the language you're using, i'm actually wondering if you should seek professional counselling. If you don't like the insurers quote, just move on to another insurer, it's not as if there is a shortage of them.

We know what a modification is . You dont need to point out that "It's pretty damn obvious" .
No need to be a smart guy and roll yer eyes either .

I was trying to highlight the fact to the guys on here who add and modify maybe unknown to them the seemingly harmless common things and sometimes harmless vehicle improvements that you see nowadays like LED lights can increase premiums . I was also highlighting the fact of how much basic mods ( like in my case some black powder coating on wheels and chequer plate ) could potentially bump the cost up so much .

Seeing as we are now being honest with each other the way you have zoomed in on me using the odd wee sweary word maybe it is you who should take up some professional counselling to remove your own finger or another persons finger out of your own tail pipe ?  2006 DEFENDER 90 TD5 CSW XS
2018 RANGE ROVER SPORT HSE DYNAMIC

blackwolf wrote:

Remember this case?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-...16630.html

Modifications included stickers and an extra cigarette lighter socket in the boot.

All of which makes me wonder if those folk who put a fish symbol on the back of their car and then drive at 18 mph irrespective of the road conditions have declared the fish to their insurers.

lambert.the.farmer wrote:

I'm just being devil's advocate here as like i said above our broker knows the individual items we have on insurance. I do however also maintain that I shouldn't be obliged to declare that I have a different brand of tyre ,air filter, brake pad, suspension bush etc etc on the vehicle than that which it left the factory with if the product is of a contemporary or better quality and meets the design requirements of the vehicle maker, just to line the coffers of the insurance industry, they are not God nor are they the protectors of roadworthiness standards, they are a service industry intended to provide compensation of property in the event of loss or damage.

BLACK LAB wrote:

blackwolf wrote:

Remember this case?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-...16630.html

Modifications included stickers and an extra cigarette lighter socket in the boot.

All of which makes me wonder if those folk who put a fish symbol on the back of their car and then drive at 18 mph irrespective of the road conditions have declared the fish to their insurers.

Just read that there - Thats terrible for that vicar woman to be put through that . Makes me wonder of the folk on here who have bought Defender Forum stickers if they told their insurance companies ? I know if I had bought one then I probably wouldnt have bothered as its only a sticker but it just shows you in the case of the vicar lady how petty insurance companies can be so they can wriggle out of coming good when it matters .

You may think it daft but I did call into the local N.F.U. office and the young girl burst into laughter as did her colleagues, they had not read about this. When the Office Manager had finished moping up the spray of coffee he rang the underwriters as the phone was hands free I herd the conversation from both ends it appears that a number of members did contact the N.F.U. about the subject as the guy at the underwriters said with a laugh in his voice "if it is a defender 2 sticker they are okay " Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to us off.

Richard

BLACK LAB wrote:

zsd-puma wrote:

BLACK LAB wrote:

The guy from the RAC told me during our lenghtly discussion that even something as basic as changing existing lights to LED's or adding spot lights is a modification . Even adding decals or stickers is a modification . Upgrading stereo equipment from basic factory stereos is a modification . Upgraded seats and steering wheels etc - All classed as modifications.
With the seemingly endless add-on's and upgrades that is out there for us Defender enthusiasts I thought it prudent to mention this on here as I dont want anybody being caught out because of some areshole insurance investigator or snide insurance company that would use these seemingly standard modifications nowadays to wriggle out honoring their side of a contract should the worst happen .

A modification is just that, anything that modifies the vehicle from how it left the factory. These might modify the vehicle's, appearance, performance or capabilities. It's hardly insurance jargon it's basic English. I really don't understand your surprise that adding spot lights, stickers, changing the stereo, changing the lights, completely changing the seats and interior would make it a modified vehicle. It seems pretty damn obvious.

I have to be honest some of the language you're using, i'm actually wondering if you should seek professional counselling. If you don't like the insurers quote, just move on to another insurer, it's not as if there is a shortage of them.

We know what a modification is . You dont need to point out that "It's pretty damn obvious" .
No need to be a smart guy and roll yer eyes either .

I was trying to highlight the fact to the guys on here who add and modify maybe unknown to them the seemingly harmless common things and sometimes harmless vehicle improvements that you see nowadays like LED lights can increase premiums . I was also highlighting the fact of how much basic mods ( like in my case some black powder coating on wheels and chequer plate ) could potentially bump the cost up so much .

Seeing as we are now being honest with each other the way you have zoomed in on me using the odd wee sweary word maybe it is you who should take up some professional counselling to remove your own finger or another persons finger out of your own tail pipe ?

leeds wrote:

lambert.the.farmer wrote:

I'm just being devil's advocate here as like i said above our broker knows the individual items we have on insurance. I do however also maintain that I shouldn't be obliged to declare that I have a different brand of tyre ,air filter, brake pad, suspension bush etc etc on the vehicle than that which it left the factory with if the product is of a contemporary or better quality and meets the design requirements of the vehicle maker, just to line the coffers of the insurance industry, they are not God nor are they the protectors of roadworthiness standards, they are a service industry intended to provide compensation of property in the event of loss or damage.

May I suggest you have a read of the contract between yourself and your motor insurance company.

The chances are extremely high that there is a clause which states that it is the policy holders responsibility to keep their vehicle roadworthy, road legal MOT etc.

Then have a careful read of the clauses where the insurance company can void the insurance policy and the chances are that if you do not conform to your responsibilites to maintain your vehicle in a road legal/worthy condition they can void your policy.


So if you fit anything to your vehicle which do not conform to current law then your vehicle is NOT road legal.

So headlights which do not carry a valid approval mark the vehicle is not road legal.

Tyres which are completely bald, brakes which are obviously not working then vehicle is not road worthy

Law requires a CAT/DPF as fitted from factory and these are removed unauthorised modification.

If the insured vehicle owner does not keep to their side of the contract why should the other party to the contract keep to their side?


Fit expensive wheels to a motor vehicle rather then standard steel wheels? Yes they both do the same job. However the expensive wheels can put thousand of pounds onto value of the vehicle. If the insurance company is made aware of their potential increased liabilities surely they are entitled to an increased premium to cover their potential increased liability?


Brendan

zsd-puma wrote:

BLACK LAB wrote:

zsd-puma wrote:

BLACK LAB wrote:

The guy from the RAC told me during our lenghtly discussion that even something as basic as changing existing lights to LED's or adding spot lights is a modification . Even adding decals or stickers is a modification . Upgrading stereo equipment from basic factory stereos is a modification . Upgraded seats and steering wheels etc - All classed as modifications.
With the seemingly endless add-on's and upgrades that is out there for us Defender enthusiasts I thought it prudent to mention this on here as I dont want anybody being caught out because of some areshole insurance investigator or snide insurance company that would use these seemingly standard modifications nowadays to wriggle out honoring their side of a contract should the worst happen .

A modification is just that, anything that modifies the vehicle from how it left the factory. These might modify the vehicle's, appearance, performance or capabilities. It's hardly insurance jargon it's basic English. I really don't understand your surprise that adding spot lights, stickers, changing the stereo, changing the lights, completely changing the seats and interior would make it a modified vehicle. It seems pretty damn obvious.

I have to be honest some of the language you're using, i'm actually wondering if you should seek professional counselling. If you don't like the insurers quote, just move on to another insurer, it's not as if there is a shortage of them.

We know what a modification is . You dont need to point out that "It's pretty damn obvious" .
No need to be a smart guy and roll yer eyes either .

I was trying to highlight the fact to the guys on here who add and modify maybe unknown to them the seemingly harmless common things and sometimes harmless vehicle improvements that you see nowadays like LED lights can increase premiums . I was also highlighting the fact of how much basic mods ( like in my case some black powder coating on wheels and chequer plate ) could potentially bump the cost up so much .

Seeing as we are now being honest with each other the way you have zoomed in on me using the odd wee sweary word maybe it is you who should take up some professional counselling to remove your own finger or another persons finger out of your own tail pipe ?

Well you were the one who chose to list what modifications were....

Seriously the level of anger in your post you really ought to consider seeing your GP.

If you think my posts on this are angry then you must be very easily disturbed .
Maybe you're the one needing to see a GP or Shrink yourself and address your gentle feminine side .

Are you sure that clutch peddle isnt too stiff for you on that Defender of yours ?  2006 DEFENDER 90 TD5 CSW XS
2018 RANGE ROVER SPORT HSE DYNAMIC

Quote:

nor are they the protectors of roadworthiness standards

leeds wrote:

Black Lab, I was referring to Lambert the Farmer and his comment

Quote:

nor are they the protectors of roadworthiness standards

Motor insurance is a legal contract between the vehicle owner and the insurance company.

One of the standard policy conditions is that the vehicle owner will keep the vehicle roadworthy/road legal/MOT etc. If the policy holder does not keep the vehicle roadworthy/road legal then there is normally a clause saying the insurance company can void the policy as the insured person is in breach of contract

With regard to tyres the UK law says it needs a minimum tread depth of 1.6mm. Tyres which are completely bald are illegal and not roadworthy so the insurance company could legally void the contract.

Now changing the type and manufacturer of the tyres as long as they meet the tread depth requirement is not illegal.


However changing tyres from all terrains to mud terrains could have an effect on the premiums. Mud terrains have a greater stopping distance in the wet with respect to all terrains so the insurance company may wish to adjust the premiums.


Brendan