Home > Finance & Insurance > Insurance Rip Off for Basic Modifications - LATEST UPDATE . |
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blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17373 |
Remember this case?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-...16630.html Modifications included stickers and an extra cigarette lighter socket in the boot. All of which makes me wonder if those folk who put a fish symbol on the back of their car and then drive at 18 mph irrespective of the road conditions have declared the fish to their insurers. |
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4th Oct 2017 1:42pm |
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lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006 |
I'm just being devil's advocate here as like i said above our broker knows the individual items we have on insurance. I do however also maintain that I shouldn't be obliged to declare that I have a different brand of tyre ,air filter, brake pad, suspension bush etc etc on the vehicle than that which it left the factory with if the product is of a contemporary or better quality and meets the design requirements of the vehicle maker, just to line the coffers of the insurance industry, they are not God nor are they the protectors of roadworthiness standards, they are a service industry intended to provide compensation of property in the event of loss or damage. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon. |
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4th Oct 2017 2:06pm |
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BLACK LAB Member Since: 07 Dec 2016 Location: AYRSHIRE Posts: 165 |
Just read that there - Thats terrible for that vicar woman to be put through that . Makes me wonder of the folk on here who have bought Defender Forum stickers if they told their insurance companies ? I know if I had bought one then I probably wouldnt have bothered as its only a sticker but it just shows you in the case of the vicar lady how petty insurance companies can be so they can wriggle out of coming good when it matters . 2006 DEFENDER 90 TD5 CSW XS 2018 RANGE ROVER SPORT HSE DYNAMIC |
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4th Oct 2017 2:25pm |
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leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581 |
May I suggest you have a read of the contract between yourself and your motor insurance company. The chances are extremely high that there is a clause which states that it is the policy holders responsibility to keep their vehicle roadworthy, road legal MOT etc. Then have a careful read of the clauses where the insurance company can void the insurance policy and the chances are that if you do not conform to your responsibilites to maintain your vehicle in a road legal/worthy condition they can void your policy. So if you fit anything to your vehicle which do not conform to current law then your vehicle is NOT road legal. So headlights which do not carry a valid approval mark the vehicle is not road legal. Tyres which are completely bald, brakes which are obviously not working then vehicle is not road worthy Law requires a CAT/DPF as fitted from factory and these are removed unauthorised modification. If the insured vehicle owner does not keep to their side of the contract why should the other party to the contract keep to their side? Fit expensive wheels to a motor vehicle rather then standard steel wheels? Yes they both do the same job. However the expensive wheels can put thousand of pounds onto value of the vehicle. If the insurance company is made aware of their potential increased liabilities surely they are entitled to an increased premium to cover their potential increased liability? Brendan |
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4th Oct 2017 3:38pm |
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BLACK LAB Member Since: 07 Dec 2016 Location: AYRSHIRE Posts: 165 |
So Brenden , yer talking there about tyres for example . The insurance companies are telling us that any modifications or changes be declared that break the mould of being factory non standard .
How many Defenders rolled out of the factory on BF Goodrich Mud terrains or Cooper STT's ? None . Surely changing to a BF Goodrich or Cooper AT or a MT tyre is an excuse for them now to try and wriggle out of honouring their side of the deal ? They are not standard tyres . Wipac Crystal headlamps on relay looms are not standard compared to the normal headlamps on many Defenders and neither are LED's. Changing your old crappy plastic steering wheel for a nicer leather one ? Thats another modification . Change your low level vinyl seats on a standard Defender for exmoor trim heated leather ones out of an XS model and there's another " modification " . What people may class as simple wee upgrades will constitute a break in contract unless you declare everything and then they have you where they want you - Like in the instance of the way the RAC started his nonsense with me over the sake of some dark windows , chequer plate and wheels . I tried to be open and upfront and they saw that as an excuse to try and shaft me for an extra £900 . I could have seen the point if I had a supercharged V8 twin turbo hiding under the bonnet but not for simple little items that alot of people nowadays do to their cars only to make it slightly better . Where does it all end ? 2006 DEFENDER 90 TD5 CSW XS 2018 RANGE ROVER SPORT HSE DYNAMIC |
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4th Oct 2017 3:54pm |
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ARC99 Member Since: 19 Feb 2013 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1831 |
You may think it daft but I did call into the local N.F.U. office and the young girl burst into laughter as did her colleagues, they had not read about this. When the Office Manager had finished moping up the spray of coffee he rang the underwriters as the phone was hands free I herd the conversation from both ends it appears that a number of members did contact the N.F.U. about the subject as the guy at the underwriters said with a laugh in his voice "if it is a defender 2 sticker they are okay " Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to us off. Richard |
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4th Oct 2017 4:03pm |
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zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 |
Well you were the one who chose to list what modifications were.... Seriously the level of anger in your post you really ought to consider seeing your GP. |
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4th Oct 2017 4:47pm |
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lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006 |
And they do that on a proportional basis? And fairly and evenly. Because I have great difficulty in rationalising that one company can be so much adrift of another for providing cover on the same vehicle. If it isn't corrupt then I'd like to know what is? Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon. |
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4th Oct 2017 4:56pm |
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BLACK LAB Member Since: 07 Dec 2016 Location: AYRSHIRE Posts: 165 |
If you think my posts on this are angry then you must be very easily disturbed . Maybe you're the one needing to see a GP or Shrink yourself and address your gentle feminine side . Are you sure that clutch peddle isnt too stiff for you on that Defender of yours ? 2006 DEFENDER 90 TD5 CSW XS 2018 RANGE ROVER SPORT HSE DYNAMIC |
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4th Oct 2017 5:51pm |
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leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581 |
Black Lab, I was referring to Lambert the Farmer and his comment
Motor insurance is a legal contract between the vehicle owner and the insurance company. One of the standard policy conditions is that the vehicle owner will keep the vehicle roadworthy/road legal/MOT etc. If the policy holder does not keep the vehicle roadworthy/road legal then there is normally a clause saying the insurance company can void the policy as the insured person is in breach of contract With regard to tyres the UK law says it needs a minimum tread depth of 1.6mm. Tyres which are completely bald are illegal and not roadworthy so the insurance company could legally void the contract. Now changing the type and manufacturer of the tyres as long as they meet the tread depth requirement is not illegal. However changing tyres from all terrains to mud terrains could have an effect on the premiums. Mud terrains have a greater stopping distance in the wet with respect to all terrains so the insurance company may wish to adjust the premiums. Brendan |
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4th Oct 2017 7:13pm |
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BLACK LAB Member Since: 07 Dec 2016 Location: AYRSHIRE Posts: 165 |
Aye Brendan , Going by what they are doing now regarding any slight changes from standard including tyres they will not ony adjust the premiums by a heft sum sometimes . They will use the changes to wriggle out of paying out .
Not many Defenders rolled out the factory with AT's and certainly not any with MT's . Lately it was a Continental tyre was it not ? I know Discoverys 3&4 usually all came out with Pirrelli Scorpian so does that now mean when we change to better General Grabber AT's for example that yer insurance is gonna be void ? I can see the point in maybe flagging up the extreme mud terrain tyres but how many of us have AT's on our 4x4's and never even bat an eyelid ? Also what if you buy a vehicle from somebody else and the changes have already been made ? AT Tyres, LED lights, black Bowler wheels , black chequer plate , fancy grille perhaps ? And there are special models out there that had all of these already . A defender does still look like a Defender no matter how much it is upgraded and for want of a better phrase tarted up . So if they then ask if it has been modified you could get some poor saying no its not been modified but then some little hitler insurance investigator voiding his insurance because he says that it has . There wont be many Defenders loved by enthusiasts like the guys on here who havent made wee upgrades or slight alterations or modifications - Not because we want to go faster or anything - more of just because we take a bit of pride of ownership in our vehicles and want it to stay in good looking and working shape more than anything . Its a great shame that yer potentially gonna get hammered financially or insurance voided because of it . 2006 DEFENDER 90 TD5 CSW XS 2018 RANGE ROVER SPORT HSE DYNAMIC |
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5th Oct 2017 3:48am |
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lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006 |
Sorry Brendan but the responsibility for enforcement of roadworthiness standards is held by vosa dvsa dvla or whatever they are called this week and the police. That the insurance industry insist upon roadworthiness as part of a contract of insurance while prudent on their part doesn't in any way make them responsible for the enforcement of or definition of roadworthiness. If you are involved in a collision and have defective tyres as per your example then you will be being prosecuted by the police for the offence through the criminal justice system, your insurer will simply wash their hands of your liability for breach of contract but they won't be the ones prosecuting you for unroadworthy tyres. That they then sue for damages arising is a civil matter but it is not an enforcement action. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon. |
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5th Oct 2017 4:19am |
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leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581 |
Hi Lambert, I agree that the enforcement of the criminal side of driving with tyres below the minimum tread depth is the responsibility of the police and the CPS.
There is a legal obligation in the UK for a minimum standard of motor insurance known as third party insurance.. This minimum can be extended to TP, F & T all the way up to fully comp. The insurance policy is a legal contract between the vehicle owner/driver and the insurance company which sets outs various clauses. One of the standard conditions is that the vehicle owner keeps the vehicle road worthy/legal, MOT etc. If this condition is not met then the insurance company can void the insurance policy. This can have extremely serious consequences for future insurance policy. Typical questions when applying for motor insurance include questions about driving convictions, have you had any motor insurance policy refused, voided etc. Answer yes to any of those questions and it will have very serious consequences on the motor insurance premiums. Yes it would be possible to argue with the insurance company about the policy being voided in a civil court. However that IMO would be a hard task on the individual policy holder. People talk about 'wiggle room' for insurance companies. Now a Def 2 forum sticker in a place which does not interfere with drivers visibility may well be considered a 'modification' however I would struggle to find a justifiable reason for insurance company to void policy or increased premiums. However obvious faults such as bald tyres with cords showing or non approved items fitted or legally required items being removed I can see reasonable grounds for the insurance company to declare the policy void. Do not give the insurance company an easy excuse to declare the policy void! Brendan |
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5th Oct 2017 8:17am |
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lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006 |
No one has said that a vehicle not being roadworthy is anything other than grounds for refusal of insurance. What is upsetting people is that simple legal and roadworthy modifications carry such a heavy penalty in terms of increased premiums arbitrarily set by insurance companies. Yes we all shop around for a premium that reflects value for money and we all want to be fully insured in the event of loss but triple the premium for a stereo etc is corrupt. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.
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5th Oct 2017 9:58am |
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