 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > High beam flash problem |
 
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| Highfellzippy Member Since: 05 Oct 2014 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 42  
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I've got the reverse
Flash ok but no high beam I don't get blue dash light on constant high beam Do you on both settings |
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13th Jan 2017 9:34am |
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| Buz Member Since: 24 Jan 2014 Location: Forest of Dean Posts: 238  
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Not sure what Defender you have mine started life as a 1987 LR90!
Ive had the same issue since upgrading the headlights and fitting DRL's. I have completely rewired the headlights with separate relays for each headlight, the only common thing from old to new is the live feed for headlight and beam so i'm thinking its something to do with those. I also have roof lights than can come on with main beam, these work when flash but not the headlights. I read somewhere something about a dim/dip relay but not investigated it any further. |
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13th Jan 2017 10:22am |
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| Landyash Member Since: 06 Feb 2011 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 286 
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Thanks for the reply guys,mines a 2003 TD5
does any body know if the high beam uses the same relay? Thanks Ash |
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14th Jan 2017 5:05pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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If you have the standard Defender light set up (only the 7" lights), there just is no relay for the headlights ex factory. The only relay for headlights that Solihull installed in a Defender is for the 90mm aux driving lights for those Defenders that come from the factory with the SVX front (double headlamps). The standard 7" headlights for all Defenders run the full juice direct thru the light switch.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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14th Jan 2017 5:12pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20441
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And that is exactly why either the main light switch or main beam stalk are often a culprit of trouble with contacts melting or high resistance due to poor physical contact. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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14th Jan 2017 5:52pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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There is an ignition-controlled relay in the supply circuit to the dip/main switch, fitted to ensure that the headlights can only be illuminated persistently with the ignition on (you can't leave the headlights on with the engine stopped). The headlamp flasher circuit has a separate supply so that the flasher works without the key being present.
If you have no flash but otherwise normal lights you need to check the power feed to the flash circuit. |
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14th Jan 2017 6:53pm |
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| Landyash Member Since: 06 Feb 2011 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 286
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Thanks for the replys,the headlights work fine,the high beam will not flash if pulled towards you with the headlights on or off you get nothing not even a click but if pushed forward with lights on it works
Blackwolf Do you know which wire and relay feed the high beam? Thanks Ash... |
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15th Jan 2017 8:26am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20441
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I know at least head light end, high beam is blue with white tracer I believe $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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15th Jan 2017 10:50am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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Sorry for the delay in following up on this. Please note that all the following comments apply to the TDCi Defender, and although the TD5 is probably the same I haven't checked (and don't intend to).
Headlight circuits:- The feed for the flash function comes from Fuse 3 (20A) on the BJB, so if your headlights work normally but don't flash on pulling the stalk, check this fuse. The feed to the main switch for off/side/head comes from Link 6 (30A) on the BJB. The sidelight output from the switch then feeds CJB Fuse 18 (10A) for the NS side, tail, no. plate and instrument lights, and CJB Fuse 19 (10A) for the OS side and tail lights. This switch output also supplies other fuse(s) not shown on the sheets I have to hand, probably for the trailer socket. The headlight outout of the switch is taken to Relay R123, which is energised by an ignition switch controlled feed from CJB Fuse 15 (5A). When energised, the relay connects the headlight output of the off/side/head switch to the dipswitch on the column. When dipped, power is fed from the dipswitch to CJB Fuse 22 (10A) for the OS dip beam, and CJB Fuse 23 (5A) for the NS dip beam. When on main, power is fed from the dipswitch to CJB Fuse 24 (10A) for the OS main beam and instrument panel warning light, and CJB Fuse 25 (10A) for the NS main beam. Troubleshooting the headlights:- - If you have no flash but otherwise normal headlights, the problem is likely to be BJB Fuse 3. - If you have flash, but no dip and no main beam, the problem is most likely to be the main off/side/head switch on the column but could possibly be the headlamp relay R123. - If you have normal dip but no main, the problem is likely to be the dip/main stalk switch on the column, but could also be simlutaneous bulb failure. - If you have normal main and no dip, the problem is most likely to be the dip/main stalk switch on the column, but could also be simlutaneous bulb failure, or, if you have dim dip, a failure of the dim dip relay. - If you have no flash and no main beam, consider simultaneous bulb failure. - If you have neither flash, dip, nor main, consider simultaneous bulb failure, or theft of both headlight units! Dim Dip (when fitted):- Dim dip was fitted to the more "commercial" models when headlamp levelling was not fitted (you will have either levelling or dim dip,. not both), and the dim dip circuit is quite complex. If fitted, the dim dip relay interrupts the circuit from the dip beam output of the dip/main/flash stalk and connects the inputs of CJB Fuses 22 and 23 instead to a reduced-voltage supply provided from a feed taken from BJB Link 6 via a series resistor. The dim dip relay has inputs from (a) the sidelight output of the off/side/head switch via CJB Fuse 20(10A), (b) the dim dip resistor as noted already, (c) the same ignition-energised feed that supplies the headlamp relay from CJB Fuse 15 (5A), (d) the dip beam output of the dip/main column switch, and (e) the output of the headlamp relay. There is also an earth connection. The dim dip relay becomes active when the igition is on. When the sidelights are switched on, the dim dip relay connects the reduced-voltage input from the dim dip resistor to the dip beam output. When the dip beam is turned on, the dim dip relay switches from the reduced-voltage input to the main headlamp supply (either from the dip switch, or the one from the relay - without taking a relay apart I don't know which but operationally it matters not). On main beam the dim dip relay disconnects both of the two inputs mentioned above from the dip beam output, in order to avoid having both filaments of the bulbs illuminated simultaneously (which would seriously shorten bulb life). (Sidenote - it is because the relay has to be able to differentiate between three conditions, namely sidelights only, side and dip, or side and main, and do different things for each condition, that it has the two headlamp circuit inputs. It is also why it is such a complex relay unit). Disabling Dim Dip (an excellent idea!):- If you simply pull out the dim dip relay you will have no dip beam lights, alsthough main will be unaffected. The "official landrover modification" replaces the realy with a bridge wire from relay Pin 8, the input from the dip switch, to relay Pin 2, the output to the dip beam lights via CJB Fuses 22 and 23. This has the effect of disabling the dim dip circuit totally, eliminating the risk of a dim dip relay malfunction causing loss of dip beam, and is generally a good solution. The optional "relay" available from Landrover to do this is in fact not a relay at all, it is simply an exceptionally expensive relay base with a short wire connecting the two pins mentioned above! An alternative and generally satisfactory method of killing dim dip is to unplug the series resistor under the OS wing. This means that also the relay is still trying to do its stuff, it is, when the sidelights only are on, switching the dip beam output to a disconnected (rather than reduced voltage) supply. the downside is that the relay is still operating and consequently is a potential source of failure. Why disable dim dip? - Apart from being a stupid idea, the main problems with dim dip are firstly that running conventional bulbs on reduced voltages has been proven greatly to reduce the life of the bulb. Secondly, if you are using the original wiring to run LED headlamps directly, or to energise relays with either normal or LED units connected (ie to upgrade to the wiring layout that LR should have installed from the factory), the LEDs or relays will not work correctly or reliably on the reduced voltage dim dip supply. Ether of the methods noted above for disabling dim dip will work in these cases. Note that the dim dip circuitry doesn't affect main beam at all, and disabling dim dip will not and cannot affect directly any auxiliary lighting powered from the main beam circuit. Hope this helps to demystify the headlights!  |
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18th Jan 2017 5:43pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20441
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Just read right through - T-Y BW.
The part I cannot understand is why everything is working perfectly exccept the Relay for my spots triggering. Flash works as well as everything else but does not work on latched main beam on the stalk. It did before unplugging the dim dip. I can't understand why I get main beam on the headlights with the stalk on latched but the Relay won't trigger. But it will on the intermittent flash. I'm wondering if it maybe the Relay for my spots it's self or possibly high resistance at the stalk switch. I've got a new Relay on the way with diode. (Have without on there at the moment) I'll just try swapping it and see what happens as well as Multimeter testing. I'm wondering if the switch on the latched main beam stalk is causing a high resistance and causing voltage drop. Possibly not enough to noice at the headlight but enough to not activate the Relay coil correctly. The switch contact for the intermittent flash may not have the issue hence working correctly. I'm going to have to do some testing and check the fuses as you've suggested. (Which is very useful!) For now as soon as I get some free time I'll take a look and see what I can work out what the exact fault is. I think testing will be the best way to I.D. The issue. At least all except the aux circuit for my spots everything is working perfect. It may possibly be a problem always that's always been there that has some how shown up after unplugging the dim dip. Just need some decent weather and a little free time.  $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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18th Jan 2017 7:29pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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If the spots work on flash but not on latch then it can't be the relay. They either work or don't.
Where have you taken your feed for the relay from? Is it possible that you've fed it from the output of the dim dip rather than directly from the headlight circuit? As Blackwolfs' description alludes to, it's a surprisingly complicated bit of kit that does strange things with the power feeds so if you've hooked the relay into the circuit down stream of it, that might explain your problem. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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18th Jan 2017 9:36pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20441
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It's triggered by the mainbeam feed not too far from behind the H4 connector on the blue and white main beam cable.
Before unplugging dim-dip it worked on latched and flash. After removing dim-dip - flash only, no latched. BUT main beam on the headlights are working, which should trigger the Relay as it does on flash. But it doesn't on latched, even though the headlights do go main beam. This is why I'm wondering if it's voltage drop. The Relay definitely is working, so must be the supply and definitely isn't wired to or through dim-dip. Effectively the headlights themselves are functioning perfectly in every way before unplugging dim dip and after. Except for this one thing. If I be tim tomorrow I'll check fuses and other bits and see what I find out. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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18th Jan 2017 9:48pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Where is the relay earthed? Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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18th Jan 2017 9:56pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20441
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It's earthed to a good chassis point mounting bolt, its hard to describe its location exactly but it's a bolt towards the front of the engine bay passenger side.
You could be right on that one, the dim - dip removal may have altered the ground path somehow. I can try adding a temp earth, check continuity as well as testing voltage. I haven't checked or touched it for a while so may be that may be it. Will report back. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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18th Jan 2017 10:02pm |
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