 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > What is a Reasonable Life Expectancy of Clutch Plate Springs |
 
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630  
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No all TDCi Defenders are affected
Regards Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse... 2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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10th Jan 2017 2:48pm |
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| OldhamLandy Member Since: 17 Oct 2013 Location: somewhere Posts: 164  
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Had the rattling on idle on mine - 65 reg with just over 9k on the clock. New clutch installed with no questions asked under warranty - 500 miles on from the replacement and all is still good and rattle free on idle. 2016 Defender 90xs SW - Santorini Black with Silver Pack
2014 Defender 90xs SW - Corris Grey with Santorini Black Roof |
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10th Jan 2017 2:57pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443 
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No, as noted above all Ford-engined Defenders have spectacularly inadequate clutches. I find it somewhat ironic that after years of criticism over the generally unsatisfactory dual-mass flywheel/solid disk clutch arrangement on the TD5, Landrover was motivated to convert the TDCi from DMF to sprung clutch for the Defender, only to come up with something which is significantly worse than ever before! It rather beggars belief. Much as I love my Puma Defender, it must be said that almost every aspect of the conversion to fit the Ford engine and gearbox was bungled to a spectaular degree, whether it is the fuel system (absurdly fragile with stupid component location), the general fit (nose cocked in the air resulting in transmission/lubrication problems), the conversion from DMF to sprung clutch, or the adaptation of the MT82 to fit the transfer box. All give every indication that the work-experience lad was sent off to do the design. |
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10th Jan 2017 4:02pm |
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| Jukathy Member Since: 25 Jan 2015 Location: Berlin Posts: 170 
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Hi Blackwulf
Transit engine/gearbox could be an advantage when you have your car repaired: Standard engine Standard components Standard OBD Good decision when it comes to reliability and easy to service imo especially if you're away 
Best - Juliet |
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15th Jan 2017 8:55pm |
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| Bigboab123 Member Since: 03 Nov 2016 Location: Glasgow Posts: 3  
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Life is a tangled up necklace of pearls.... |
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19th Jan 2017 1:33pm |
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| NormanD Member Since: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Bristol Posts: 286  
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Try these, seems to get good results on Facebook
Clutch Fix Ltd Unit 4, Highfield Works, 44-50 Heaton Street, Cleckheaton, BD19 3TN 01274 877322 NormanD WE191 2015 110 XS Utility 2014 VW Caravelle 180 Executive |
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19th Jan 2017 4:15pm |
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| NormanD Member Since: 12 Aug 2011 Location: Bristol Posts: 286
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Try these, seems to get good results on Facebook
Clutch Fix Ltd Unit 4, Highfield Works, 44-50 Heaton Street, Cleckheaton, BD19 3TN 01274 877322 apologies Double post NormanD WE191 2015 110 XS Utility 2014 VW Caravelle 180 Executive |
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19th Jan 2017 4:34pm |
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| Leeroy Member Since: 01 Aug 2015 Location: East Yorkshire Posts: 261 
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Mine had a new clutch at 19k due to the same issues rattling but as soon as you depress the clutch noise disappears, Its started again so it will be back in this week.
Gutted when it goes in and I get one of them modern things 
Dealership in Hull have been brilliant so far see how this week goes Will keep you all posted |
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19th Jan 2017 6:15pm |
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| Galyman Member Since: 20 Jan 2016 Location: Scottish Borders Posts: 92 
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Would a RedBooster clutch servo increase the clutch life, does anyone know?
http://www.redbooster.com/ |
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24th Jan 2017 8:47pm |
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| RFT Member Since: 13 Nov 2010 Location: Cheshire Posts: 680 
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My 130 (with me from new) has done nearly 90k miles and not a problem with clutch, it pulls trailers, caries my camper over alps and for 4 years drove the A483 every 2 weeks to Pembrokeshire (several hundred gear changes per trip) and the clutch is fine. (Touch wood)
Then again I'm 50 been driving since I was 17, worked away from home 75% of my life, driven many many miles for work, (late on a Sunday and Friday night - all you contractors will know what I mean) hammered my cars until 100k minimum and I've never had a clutch fail on me. I'm a mechanical engineer with significant experience in mean time before failure and asset management of oil refineries and my Dad who started his working life hammering out specialist brake linings and clutch linings for Gandy so .... At the risk of being shot down in flames I do believe clutch issues are associated more with the users left leg than the designer of the power train. 130 Puma HCPU with an Artica 240LR Demountable Camper |
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24th Jan 2017 11:04pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3643 
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ref the last post I have never had a clutch fail in anything before, my BM has done 90k on first clutch and still good, my defender was rattling at about 5 k and replaced at about 10k is rattling again at 19k, you can however only hear it if you listen for it. I think some fail some dont however the design is clearly inadequate, I am gentle with the defenders clutch / transmission, dont ride it and it has only towed once.
I am also a qualified automotive and mechanical engineer. I suspect in most cases the clutch could rattle for many 1000s of miles and still work happily with loose springs, some people will notice the rattle and worry others wont, mine is audible in the garage not so audible when out of the garage. I now consider it a feature but do monitor it as I dont want to trash the flywheel, as stated I will go Truck Fix or perhaps IRB when it gets bad DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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25th Jan 2017 6:24am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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I think that there is more to it that that. I have been driving longer than you, and I drive everything from tractors to mobile cranes, vintage sports cars to HGVs, and I have NEVER had a clutch fail on me except in the Puma. I have never worn a clutch out (I changed my Disco 2 clutch at 130k miles due to flywheel issues and it was far from worn out). I have also never had the clutch springs fail on any other vehicle than the Puma. There can be little doubt that the Puma clutch driven plate was deficient to begin with and has steadily been improving with redesigns. My vehicle's first clutch was replaced at 2k miles, the second at 60k miles, and the third at 150k miles. the vehicle had 58k when I bought it, so the first clutch I had fitted lasted 90k. At that mileage it rattled badly, and when I removed it the springs were loose enough for one to be jiggled out from the hub. That is not the result of abuse, it is the result of the springs taking a permanent set. The present clutch is approaching 60k miles and doesn't yet rattle. I cannot say for certain that the first owner of my vehicle wasn't a clutch-munching incompetent, but I do not believe that the extraordinarily high rate of clutch failures in the early TDCi Defenders to be solely down to driver behaviour. It would be interesting to find out one day, though I doubt we shall, why LR decided to change from a DMF set-up as used on the Transit to a traditional solid flywheel for the Defender. It was a decision that bucked automotive trends at the time, when most manufacturers were, for well-understood reasons, opting for DMF solutions on high-speed DI engines. It may be that the poor performance and criticism of the TD5 DMF arrangement was the reason (ironic that we now think the once-hated TD5 clutch is quite good by comparison to the TDCi!), but it was precisely because of the difficulty in finding suitable spring rates for the hub springs, and doing so without resultant premature failures, that the DM flywheel was developed. I have no doubt that driver abuse or misoperation is behind many clutch failures. I suspect that poor expectation management by LR is behind others, by which I mean that many recent Defender buyers are from the traditional car-buying sector and have an expectation that the Defender will drive like a car. However there can I think be little doubt that the life expectancy of the early driven plates was very disappointing. |
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25th Jan 2017 9:23am |
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| Mudspanker Member Since: 31 Jan 2017 Location: London Posts: 1 
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Hello all - Newbie here!
I have been reading various posts on 2.2 TDci clutches with interest. I have had my Bowler Defender 110 now for 1.5 years - it's a 64 plate (2015 spec) and has done just over 13k miles. The problems are as follows: - Clutch slips / over-revving under hard acceleration (such as away from roundabouts) in fifth and sixth gears, usually only after 2-3 hours' driving. - Clutch slips on steep gradients (such as Lynmouth or Porlock Hills) in 3rd gear and above. - Clutch biting point varies considerably - usually after a period of idleness or when very cold. It usually returns to normal after a dozen or so gear changes. What I have done so far is: - Called Bowler and asked if their modified torque curve is too much for the standard clutch? They said they had not yet heard of a failure, but did offer me a heavy duty upgrade for many pounds. They did suggest I took it to a local dealer to have it investigated under warranty. - Took it to a local dealer (in November 2015), who had it for two weeks. They acknowledged there were problems with the hydraulics and went through several stages of diagnostics. They ended up replacing the master and slave cylinders and asked me to return it if there were any further problems. - It felt fine for the next six months, until clutch started slipping again on steep hills in Cornwall / Devon, so it went back into the Dealer in September. They drove it for miles without a fault and said that they could not do anything without there being a detectable fault. - It has since started its biting point randomness again, most recently during the freezing weather this January (causing me to almost crush my neighbour's car when trying to leave the parking space). It is now back with the dealer. My warranty runs out in November, so am anxious to have this resolved before then. Just wondering - anyone else had similar experience? There is no rattling on idle (yet). All the best for now, Last edited by Mudspanker on 7th Feb 2017 9:20am. Edited 1 time in total |
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31st Jan 2017 12:30pm |
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| ChrisWoods Member Since: 29 Dec 2016 Location: Spreyton Posts: 164 
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My clutch has just been replaced at 92k miles. Started to notice a rattle at 88k. Friction plate was only half worn but the springs were getting loose. I don't mind doing the clutch every 100k miles. 2009 2.4TDCi XS Utility Wagon.
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7th Feb 2017 8:33am |
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