 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Rear Axle offset |
 
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637   
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So back snooping around the rear of the truck again...
The rear axle has had a pair of new disks on the rear recently. I wondered if they were correct, but they are, or at least they are symmetrical, I measured from the face of the disk to the inside of the alloy and its the same give or take a mm between both sides. Anyway I managed to stick my hand between the top of the tire to the spring on the right side was circa 3 fingers gap, with the left hand gap almost a full hand gap..... Anyway, I lay down on the deck and took some pictures from behind looking forward, right hand side is the side that seems to sit further inside the arch. [URL=]  Click image to enlarge[/URL] [URL=] Click image to enlarge[/URL] [URL=] Click image to enlarge[/URL] [URL=] Click image to enlarge[/URL] I'm a bit deflated to be honest, I bought this in good faith, based on a test drive and inspection by me. Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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15th Dec 2016 10:37pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi,
I've not got any experience of ARB on defenders, I had a 2001 TD5 before this puma, so not sure. I think the ARB is held in bushes slung from the chassis, and I think the ARB is prevented from moving laterally due to a profile that engages in this bush. This would at least explain why the ARB would be pushed to one side since its not free to centralise. I'm seriously think the suspension bushes on the a-frame are shot (I hope). Cheers Andy |
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15th Dec 2016 11:36pm |
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630 
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Likewise... It's hard to tell from the pictures, but that rear bar looks bent to me... I'd remove it and check... Then drive the truck without it to see if the axle re-centres it's self... It could also be the reason it's lower on one side...
Another thing to check is whether the springs are seated correctly at the chassis... as if the spring is twisted in the top mount the truck will sit at an angle and push the axle across to compensate... It may also be worth taking the springs off to see if they are both the same length as maybe one has been replaced with an incorrect part (possibly by mistake)... This would cause a similar issue... From there, Your probably going to have to dig deeper and start spending to find the issue... I'd personally start with a 4 wheel alignment to see if it's the chassis side that out, or the bodies twisted... Also, is the N/S tyre wearing differently from the O/S Regards Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse... 2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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16th Dec 2016 6:52am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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Andy,
after looking at your pictures, I think Morepower and Vogler might well be right! Your observations about spring/tyre and the body/tyre relationship indicate that the axle is offset to the left. And the ARB links indicate that the ARB is fighting the axle, trying to pull it .....further over to the left. Either the ARB bar is bent, or it is out of centre. As already suggested, disconnect the ARB links, and see if the axle finds its way back to centre. Once disconnected, take a look what shape the ARB is. Do the links line up? Is it possible to bend an ARB in an off road "forced articulation" situation? I can well imagine thats possible. Stephen 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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16th Dec 2016 7:20am |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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I took off my ARB for a while recently after discovering the ball joint seals were ruptured and the balls were basically lumps of oxide...
The bar - if it really wants to - can relocate itself a couple of inches (I'd say at most, but really need to look under to confirm) along the chassis mount bushes before the bend at one end would stop further movement. The link to the axle has a ball joint at one end and a bush set at the other, which by rights should be angled to account for any offset. I know this because when I reinstalled mine, this is what I got, it wasn't until I loosened the chassis bushes and centred them that it all looked nice again. So if you're seeing angled links like you are, and the ARB is centred nicely with resepct to the chassis end bushes (the big very visible ones) then it's my opinion that this makes sense, considering the offset you;re seeing with the wheels - i.e. it's just another symptom of the real cause. Question: is the ARB centered w.r.t. the chassis bushes? Even if it isn't I cant see it moving the axle that far... The bushes and links would have to soak up a feck ton on force before that. Meanwhile, I really think being under it with someone pushing the vehicle (quite robustly) sideways will give you a clue - if they're strong/heavy enough they might find the natural resonance of the rear suspension, you might see hear the dodgy section right before your eyes, much better than a static look-see. p.s. yeah, brakes won't be anything to do with it. Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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16th Dec 2016 8:42am |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi all,
So had the rear jacked up and chassis on axle stands, axle hanging free. Not great on the shocks, but its a one off. What did I find out? 1) Trailing arms appear to be straight (as measured with 1m spirit level); 2) Chassis seems to be square (1m spirit level laid against side of the chassis rails); 3) Trailing arm bushes seem soft; 4) A-arm fulcrum BJ looks to be off centre, couldn't get a measurement to a chassis rail to confirm, seemed to be off by about an inch if the rear tub seam is a guide, this would make some sense with ref to wheels; 5) A-arm mounting looks ok, had a good poke about around that area, didn't seem to be buckled. The large mounting plate that the crows feet sit on was square, no damage. The crows feet was sitting level on the plate, i.e. they were not sitting further forward on one side compared to the other. 6) A-arm bushes look soft, was able to move the arms with a pry bar; So going to get a garage to scope it out on Tuesday, might just get new bushes fitted and ask them to check if there is anything twisted that I cannot see. Normally I'd tackle a bush replacement job myself, but my sockets don't fit the a-arm bolts and I want somebody who i trust and works on these things all the time to scope it out....... Will see what the garage see, will keep you all posted 
Cheers Andy |
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17th Dec 2016 3:53pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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Andy,
it all sounds like normal wear, apart from the out of centre balljoint. Wear alone, wonīt cause the axle to sit off centre. And what about the ARB? You will only know whether the balljoint or the ARB is the cause once the ARB is disconnected. Interested to hear what the workshop discovers. Stephen 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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17th Dec 2016 4:32pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Yeah, i'm a bit worried to be honest.
But i ran a spirit level (1m) along the chassis rails, and it all looked pretty level, i.e. the level sat on the steel for its full length, no rippling of steel work or anything! I am wondering if the body itself isnt sitting square? For the a-arms to be sitting off, i would expect to see damage, but as i say the crowfeet and the upper chassis frame are all looking in good condition no damage due to rust or anything. I guess most things on a defender can be repaired, i guess its just a question of tracking the issue down and fixing it. I'm going back under the truck tomorrow morning and i'll leave it on the ground this time and try and measure the a-frame itself, and from the side of the a-frame to the chassis rail. Cheers Andy |
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17th Dec 2016 9:22pm |
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| JBC Member Since: 21 Apr 2013 Location: Rutland Posts: 155 |
You haven't got a wheel on back to front, have you? This could be done on steels and due to the offset it could give the effect you are seeing. Can't be done on alloys though...
Just a thought... |
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18th Dec 2016 12:35am |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi,
No I have sawtooth alloys (LR). I measured the a-arms, and it was a bit difficult, but measured to edges on the arm itself, the were both circa 51cm from the end of the arm to the edge of the first bolt on the fulcrum joint. The arms are 52cm wide. The mounting point to the chassis was measured to the intermediate stiffening point, both 60mm as measured in the same plain as the hinge points of the a-arm. the intermediate stiffener was 16" from the next stiffener (both sides). So, seems like the chassis is square and the a-arms are sitting in the correct location, I'm wondering if the body itself is sitting off centre. If so I can live with that. Cheers Andy |
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18th Dec 2016 12:34pm |
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| JBC Member Since: 21 Apr 2013 Location: Rutland Posts: 155 |
Just another thought... you could check the spacers you used are the same thickness both sides...?
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18th Dec 2016 12:40pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hiya,
Thanks, good idea. But unfortunately I checked this previously, i had 135mm from disk face to side of alloy wheel, on both sides, give or take a mm or so. Will get my local garage to scope it out and see what they think, along with fixing the swivel hub seals. Cheers Andy |
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18th Dec 2016 12:44pm |
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| Disco_Mikey Member Since: 16 Nov 2014 Location: Dundee Posts: 531 
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I fitted you fancy a trip down to Dundee, I'd be happy to have a look at it for you, and even compare measurements against my own Defender
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18th Dec 2016 2:15pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi Disco,
Appreciate the offer. I have the truck booked in to my local garage. I may give you a shout after xmas if they cannot identify the problem. only problem for me with Dundee is the distance, i'd have to take a day off, unless i did it on a Saturday or something. Fingers crossed the garage find the smoking gun
I'll be selling my old truck just as soon as i can be bothered to hoover it and stick the gumtree ad up, will add an advert to this site as well, probably when I'm off between xmas and new year. Cheers Andy |
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18th Dec 2016 3:21pm |
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