 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Ultra Gauge Paranoia? – Engine Temperature |
 
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060   
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I´ve had an Ultraguage on my 2012 2.2 90 for 18 months or so now. It is a relatively light 2 seater SW, but I hang heavy trailers on the back, and don´t drive slowly.
We have driven to the med with a 3.5 ton trailer, and like yourself, I have been observing the temperatures. Without a trailer, 88-93° is typical, with 95-96° coming up occasionally when the DPF goes through regeneration (120 kmh, cruising on the motorway, lasts about 20 minutes). With the trailer, on the inclines (and an outside temperature of 30+°), we would see up to 105°, but with no sign of complaint from the motor. I´d instinctively back off a little at that temp, but never had the feeling that the 2.2 demanded the mercy (in contrast to my previous 2.4 which would go into limp mode occasionally). Most of the trailer journeys show low 90° temps. Over 60000 Kilometers now, no problems and no oil useage between services. The Ultrascan is fantastic, and worthwhile addition to a Defender. 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s, Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons |
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29th Feb 2016 9:42am |
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| Roy5695 Member Since: 15 Feb 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 1123  
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My 110dc runs on average between 88-92 C during normal driving. Whilst going up an incline at around 65mph it would rise to about 97/98 C I've never had it in the 100's though I'd imagine if towing a trailer and the engine having to work harder the temperature would rise significantly.
Gary of alive shared a video on Facebook the other day of an Australian bloke that has manufactured an adaptor for where the oil filter attaches so you can have an old metal can filter (larger than the paper filter) and also allows the connection of an oil cooler. Maybe something for you boys who tow regularly to look into. Don't know if this link will work... https://www.facebook.com/gary.wood.5454/posts/10206200796674356 |
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3rd Mar 2016 5:19pm |
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| Phil VM2.5 Member Since: 28 Mar 2012 Location: Limelette Posts: 196  
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Hi,
Ordinary from new and today 117000km the temperature was between 89 and 91degre centigrade reed with a scangauge. Today even after 10 or 20 km, the max is 86. It seems maybe a little difference but it is the way very slowly to reach it. I did change the thermostat but it is the same. Any idea ? Phil current : defender 110 sw 2.2 puma 2012 and 230.000km today and again my Range Rover VM2.5 engine from 1992 and 528.000km today. One ten 1988 to 1992 1987 BMW GS80 One Ten from 1984 to 1987 One Ten from 1983 to 1984 Serie 3 109 from 1980 to 1983 from 1974 Jeep CJ3B and CJ6 |
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3rd Dec 2016 3:25am |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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Running temps in the mid 90°C range and higher are pretty normal for a car these days. The standard coolant thermostat in a Puma only starts opening as of 88°C, and is only fully open at 96°C. So coolant temps under load of around 100°C are pretty standard. I understand the reason why car manufacturers increased the engine temp is that higher temps help keep emissions lower. Not necessarily really better for the engine in the long run, but emissions rule it seems. In the past coolant temps were usually lower, more in the mid to higher 80°C range. Is this better for the engine, and does it give you more margin for avoiding eventual overheating when engine loads are high? I don't know for sure, but personally I do think that keeping engine temps at those mid to high 80°C range is probably better indeed.
One possible thing we can do is replace the standard Puma coolant thermostat by the one from the FL II, Land Rover part number PEL500110. This is an exact same model thermostat as standard, but it starts opening at 82°C and is fully open at 88°C. I do not have an ultragauge, but I had this PEL500110 installed. I see that even in winter this new thermostat lets the engine warm up as fast as the original higher temp thermostat which is good, but the engine should be running a bit cooler, and importantly, when high power demand, the cooling system will be doing its job at the max of its capacity already from a lower temp than the standard set up. As said, gives the entire coolant system more margin for avoiding extremely high temps. I have additionally installed a larger intercooler (Entreq) which brings the input air temp to a lower level, which also should help engine to run more efficient due to the cooler air/fuel mix. After running like this for almost 2 years now, I have had zero problems, and chances are high that I run more in the mid to higher 80°C range than the 90°C and higher range which is normal with the standard thermostat. Many on here have made that mod, have not heard anybody report problems with it. Suggest you read in full the 8 pages of below thread. Eric http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic32086....=pel500110  Click image to enlarge You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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3rd Dec 2016 6:06am |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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Higer RPM means more bulk coolant circulation per unit distance travelled ?? I'll also add that I scoped the coolant with my BAS remap tool and I too could see over 100° on occasion, I think it's normal (for some drivers)  Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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3rd Dec 2016 6:29am |
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| Beery Member Since: 16 Nov 2014 Location: NSW Posts: 36  
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Ive found that the PEL500110 helps up to a certain point, that is while the rest of the cooling system has the capacity to shed the heat load.
Its a sliding formula and I found the limit at around the point of 35 degrees celcius ambient and 70% engine load. On a long trip from Darwin to Dubbo here in Australia, doing about 1200km per day over 3 days I had plenty of time to contemplate this. On the second day, for several hours driving through flat, open country at 110km/h the engine temp would just sit at or just under 100 degrees and wouldn't budge, hour after hour. As soon as I backed off the speed a bit, the temp would come down rapidly. Early in the morning and after the sun went down, the engine temp would come down a few degrees. The limiting factors on a puma are radiator size and airflow restictions through the engine bay. Without the capacity to keep the coolant at or below the thermostat's 'fully open' temp, the coolant temp must then raise until it finds an 'equilibrium' of sorts where there is a big enough temperature gradient between it and the air to shed the same BTU's coming from the engine. The equilibrium I found on that day seemed to be around 100 degrees. |
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3rd Dec 2016 9:31am |
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| Jukathy Member Since: 25 Jan 2015 Location: Berlin Posts: 170
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Reduce the engine temp - a tempting idea. But - is it advantageous or just some kind of nonsense caused by too much mesuring ?
Since the original valve opens at the right time, I did not have an overheated engine yet. 
If the engine runs cooler (we're talking about very few degrees) it will also run dirtier. Too much dirt in the engine oil, the EGR, the exhaust (sensors etc.) won't lengthen an engine's life, will it? I suppose an engine ran cooler once- in 'former times'  - allowing for a whole lot simpler cooling system (= low costs).  |
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4th Dec 2016 10:41am |
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| Phil VM2.5 Member Since: 28 Mar 2012 Location: Limelette Posts: 196
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Hi,
I did read all the pages ... Concerning more overheating problems. I did not find an answer to my question. I did not have any problems till now with the particle filter, I hope , it will be the same in the future. Philippe current : defender 110 sw 2.2 puma 2012 and 230.000km today and again my Range Rover VM2.5 engine from 1992 and 528.000km today. One ten 1988 to 1992 1987 BMW GS80 One Ten from 1984 to 1987 One Ten from 1983 to 1984 Serie 3 109 from 1980 to 1983 from 1974 Jeep CJ3B and CJ6 |
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5th Dec 2016 11:13am |
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| Stacey007 Member Since: 25 Sep 2015 Location: Cheshire Posts: 3748
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Hello
I Have a Ultraguage (the smaller one) My temperature when driving to the French Alps over summer pretty much sat at 90 and only went up slightly up the passes (on the Toll roads). Car was not towing but full, on the way back at least 30 bottle of wine amongst the boot of other stuff 
Seems pretty constant even on my trips to work mainly a A roads |
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5th Dec 2016 11:45am |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138 
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Hi!
My 2009 one ten 2.4 puma was often overheating too. It is always heavy loaded around 3000kgs and Alive remap stage 2 with bigger intercooler. One week ago I replaced my thermostst with PEL500110 and added the Nakatanenga viscous fan spacer. Replaced coolant with new in the same time. Now the temps are cold in Switzerland so no overheating but I will let you know next summer. I ordered a obd2 bluetooth temp scan. I will try it when I receive it. Regards |
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6th Dec 2016 10:10pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110 
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Very interesting thread
I have problems with the engine overheating during all summers since 2011 when the temperature reach +30°C and you run at ~120 KPH in 6th gear. In my experience there is not a holy grial that you install and will reduce the temperature in 10°C. (Maybe a new radiator but quite expensive move) I follow several steps, the first one was to replace the intercooler (together with a Remap); then the thermostat and finally the Nakatenga spacer. As far as I seen, each one separately down the engine temperature in maybe 1-2°C and working together they produce 3-6°C temp drop under heavy load. We are just starting the summer and the spacer was installed at the end of the last one, so probably in the next 3-4 month I will have more clear. In hot days and in normal conditions temp can reach between 85-95°C cheers! Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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7th Dec 2016 10:43am |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Nice Eduardo!
I have got the same setup as you for one week. New PEL500110 thermostat and Nakatanenga fan spacer. But here Winter is just begining and temps are around -2 celcius degrees right now so impossible to test it. Let us know about yours when you tested it. Best regards |
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11th Dec 2016 8:58am |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110
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Just an update
Tested during those days both pieces, the spacer and the new thermostat with an exterior temps of 34°C and more. Appears that the temperature have been dropped around 2-4 °C compared with the previous setup, but still not enough to avoid the overheating problems in long slopes (2-3° in average for 5 km) at high speed (120 kph) in 6th gear w/o air conditioning and not heavily load (less than 300 kg included passengers), and obviously is worst when the A/C is on. Another interesting thing: after long travels with high exterior temperature and when I stop the car I can hear an almost inaudible sound of pressurized air escaping from the cooling water expansion bottle. Is it normal? Cheers! Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo" Click image to enlarge |
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17th Jan 2017 7:30pm |
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| Okan Member Since: 17 Oct 2016 Location: Geneva Posts: 138
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Hi!
Thanks for your report but bad sounds:-( I installed the new thermostat 500110 and Nakatanenga spacer, but in Switzerland Temp are under 0 at this time so impossible to make a test of overheating. Did you tried to check if your expansion is well sealed or if you found some coolant getting out when you are hearing this pressurized sound? In my case I changeed this with a new too. Not an expensive part and mine was so old like my car so 117000 km. Maybe try to buy a new one and make a new test. Another possibility should be to completly change your coolant. The Last thing a bit strange but possible is to cover a bit the radiator grill with something to forcing the cooling system working harder. I saw this on some australian 4x4 and they know a lot about overheating in this kind of country. regards |
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17th Jan 2017 8:31pm |
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