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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110   
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I see the Beckham’s (any excuse for publicity) have come out strongly today for the UK to remain,
The multi-millionaire is quoted as saying that being in Europe instilled in him and Victoria the importance of being in a "vibrant and connected world". Really and not the fact that their businesses rely heavily on being in Europe. Personally I am fed up to the teeth of millionaires telling me we would be better off to remain, I suggest to any of them if the EU is so fantastic then sell up and move to any of the 27 other states, I for one would not miss a single one. Saying that I am waiting for Rooney that other great millionaire political football playing pundit to say something along the lines of: ‘I will vote to remain, as to be in the union gives me a feeling of international enriching heart-warming bliss, that improves, inspires and encourages the entire well off in the UK to be a superior human being and to rejoice daily in not being a racist, unlike those poor people who wish to leave this great European collective club.’  For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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21st Jun 2016 12:02pm |
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| AndyS Member Since: 18 Aug 2012 Location: London Posts: 595  
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It's not racist to vote exit but there has been a lot of 'othering' by the leave campaign. They've made a big thing about not wanting to be part of any club that'd have Turkey, Farage said he doesn't want Romanians living next door and too much talk from all people about 'them' as depicted in the UKIP poster of last week. The trouble is, if we do exit on Thursday it'll give people who are racist validation to escalate their hate because they'll feel they've won. I'm not saying you people are racist but for anyone who is racist a campaign fought on othering will give them an excuse to be more racist.
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21st Jun 2016 12:57pm |
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| Ramsay Member Since: 30 Sep 2015 Location: Moffat, Dumfries & Galloway Posts: 627  
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AndyS a definite problem for me about leave is that it is backed by UKIP and the those who view immigrants as a problem. The reality is that on Brexit immigration would increase. Oh and everyone will have to put up with hours of queues at the airport for the passport checks. And I guess we can forget about the M20 as a motorway as Op Stack will be permanent.
Both sides have been weak but Leave for me has been very poor on giving a positive plan of what comes next. Platitudes like getting our country back really don't work. 1995 Defender 110 CSW 1971 SIIA Lightweight |
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21st Jun 2016 1:42pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110
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The racist card is being very overplayed by those who wish to remain and they should be ashamed of themselves for trying to label people who wish to leave as such.
I will vote to leave on Thursday and it has nothing to do with race, creed or colour. I teach at a university where many of the students are from Europe and Asia, some of whom live with nationalised parents in the UK others are students visiting this country many of these return to their country of origin some remain and go on to find employment in their chosen field once they have graduated. I feel my life has been enriched by their differing cultures and knowledge. My voting decision is also not based on sovereignty, fish quotas or farming subsidies, immigration or how much we pay or do not pay. Instead it is based on the years since 1975 where I also voted ‘No’ to the then called ‘common market’, in those forty odd years I have witnessed an overwhelming power shift to the European Union, that with each passing years becomes more autocratic and to my mind is being damaged from within by its countless regulations and laws, it is estimated that 64.7 per cent of UK law can be deemed to be EU-influenced. I also envisage the EU becoming a super state controlled by people who were not voted for by this country and who may not have this country interests at heart. I also feel that the EU treats Britain because of it economic standing as a cash cow and I for one have had enough of the EU. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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21st Jun 2016 2:10pm |
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| Lost for Words Member Since: 18 Jun 2015 Location: Warminster, Wiltshire Posts: 200 |
On the other hand, a vast amount of the xenophobia stems directly from the EU's free movement policy. If people feel we have control of our immigration and are confident that we ensure immigrants are the people we need and are making a contribution to our country, they will be a lot happier about it. It's not wrong to be concerned about pressures that immigration brings, and we musn't ingore the issue just because it might encompass other ones that would have to be dealt with.
Yes, but primarily, it is backed by people who recognise the issues with uncontrolled immigration, not immigrants. I consider immigrants to have a lot to offer the country, but I also recognise the pressures that occur through lack of control, the need better to prioritise the immigrants with the skills we really need, and most of all, I consider it to be much more desirable to have an immigration system that does not discriminate against people from outside the EU.
Why? Long term I mean, not just short term effects before we actually leave.
We aren't in the Schengen Zone so passports are already checked. I'm sure some extra capacity would not be the biggest of issues if required.
Why? The border between France and the UK is not going to close up, and Stack is about supply vs demand anyway. Even if the borders were to close, demand would drop with it.
Perhaps you could point me in the direction of the "positive plan" from Remain? I think Leave have offered significantly more indication of the potential changes. There's a great deal more flexibility in leaving, and exactly which routes we would choose would be down to future governments. Remain seem so focused on what happens if we leave and not if we stay - is the campaign actually to "Remain" or is it really just "Don't Leave", one wonders? Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver  |
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21st Jun 2016 2:43pm |
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| Ramsay Member Since: 30 Sep 2015 Location: Moffat, Dumfries & Galloway Posts: 627
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I am not sure remain has a greatly positive plan beyond continuing more of the same. If we get to the end of this increasingly temporary looking government.
Parties who campaign on positive change in Europe not the taking our ball away approach of UKIP I think will generate considerable support. I found this information from the FT useful to see how in many areas the sides stack up. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/0260242c-370b-11...z4CE9H2FrH As for Border Force manning. I see on a regular basis already the staff struggling to cope at airports. I do not think they will cope with additional checks at entry for the number of Europeans who travel each day. The same applies regarding my point on OP Stack. So much of our goods passes through the tunnel and ferries. Additional checks there will slow traffic in both directions. For the transport of time sensitive goods I'm sure this will not be a good result. This is before I get on to the sheer embuggerance of getting new passports, licences and number plates. 1995 Defender 110 CSW 1971 SIIA Lightweight |
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21st Jun 2016 3:34pm |
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| bob neville Member Since: 30 Apr 2009 Location: Marbella Posts: 3248  
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Why would you need new passports, number plates etc ?
Our passport is a British passport that happens to have an EU influenced cover. Number plates are British number plates so why will they need changing ? If you have a set of number plates with the EU marking on the left then they may need to be changed at some point. From the BBC news "Will I still be able to use my passport? Yes, in answer to Ruth's question. It is a British document - there is no such thing as an EU passport, so whether the UK stays in or leaves the EU your passport will stay the same. In theory, the government could, if it wanted, decide to change the colour, which is currently standardised for EU countries, says the BBC's Europe correspondent, Chris Morris." These questions have been asked a number of times on news sites and they all answer there will be no change. I now see Cameron is begging us not to leave outside No 10. If there was one good reason to vote leave then it has to be the Beckhams spouting off - I wonder how much they got paid for that
Bob 2015 Jaguar XE240 R Sport - goes like ....... !! 2013 Defender 90 CSW - sold 2009 Defender 110 Double Cab - sold 2001 TD5 90 CSW - offroad project - sold to a forum member 2011 Porsche Boxster - for the sunny days ! |
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21st Jun 2016 3:41pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110
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Having just watched Cameron spouting the usual rhetoric outside No 10. I thought he was more or less pleading, but begging is just as apt, however political pundits are labelling some of his statements weird.
However, there's also been a bit of a row about David Cameron's decision to use Downing Street - and the full power of his prime ministerial office - to make his address, because of the purdah rules. There will be discussion, I think, about that lectern. Who carried it out? Who does it belong to? The government or the Conservative Party? Purdah, in case you weren't sure, is a long standing convention whereby governments refrain from making any major announcements in the run-up to general elections or other polls to avoid influencing their outcome. I did however agree with one of Cameron's statements that being “I know I haven't got every decision right and I know some people are not happy with everything I've done, at last a little bit of honesty. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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21st Jun 2016 3:56pm |
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| Lost for Words Member Since: 18 Jun 2015 Location: Warminster, Wiltshire Posts: 200 |
The FT is just hilariously europhile. Like all the "experts", figures are basically produced on the assumption that the EU "method" works. None of it proves anything except that economists, big business and politicians like it, because they think they've found a solution that doesn't exist or simply that it gives them an easy life. Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver |
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21st Jun 2016 4:02pm |
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| stanley Member Since: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Dorset /hampshire Posts: 1032 
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Just watching " the big debate " on BBC1 ,
It's become and slanging match between each side , trying to score points with out proper discussion , time to take the dog for a walk I think ! |
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21st Jun 2016 7:55pm |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471 
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Came in late, watched 10 mins of the debate and gave up in favour of a bit of culture with Lucy Worsley. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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21st Jun 2016 8:36pm |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 1017 
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Probably the most constructive information I have seen, from someone with real credibility
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/16/wa...um-debate/ Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200 Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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21st Jun 2016 8:51pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637 
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Just watched that video, thanks, quite interesting.
Cheers Andy |
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21st Jun 2016 10:24pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816  
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Ooh, I do like a bit of Wucy Wowsley. I'd have paid more interest in history if she'd been my teacher. Love the gusto she puts in, the slightly mad approach and the willingness to try something a bit bonkers or get dressed up like one of Henry VIII's wives. Great fun, great TV. Better than that pompous oaf Starkey although I do remain a fan of Schama  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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22nd Jun 2016 6:06am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816
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Why on earth did my fellow Londoners, in my absence, vote for that horrible little thing, Khan? Hell's teeth. How long will he be mayor for? Does like himself, doesn't he? Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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22nd Jun 2016 6:10am |
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