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Home > Wheels & Tyres > Tyre wear - when to replace?

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Riccarton

Member Since: 10 Aug 2015
Location: Gods' Own Country
Posts: 280

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Zambezi Silver

I thought the whole reason for putting the new tyres on the rear was nothing to do with braking but cornering instead.

Better grip on the front leads to oversteer which the do-gooders deem as dangerous whereas better grip on the back leads to understeer (boring

).

Personally, even if it is wrong, I'm happy with the grip on the front

Rear grip does little to help you in a steep decent

29th Mar 2016 5:56pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Cetane wrote:
The only reason I've ever heard of newer set on the rear is for vehicles with a Haldex centre diff.

or if the fronts are a different size to the rears...

29th Mar 2016 6:09pm

Cetane

Member Since: 27 Nov 2012
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 171

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green

True.

Bit of a moot point though as you'd be a bit mental bolting dedicated rears on the front and vice versa.

Re; cornering. It's more likely you'll find the limit of traction under braking out on the roads than any other dynamic phase. Especially unexpectedly eg. emergency stop. If you're finding the lateral (cornering) limit and its a surprise, then your driving manner might need some attention.

29th Mar 2016 6:16pm

miker

Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1768

News on the rear makes sense mostly because most cars are FWD and wear the fronts. Going Rear-Front-Bin means you always have fresh tyres all round, rather than never replacing the rears, just wearing and replacing the fronts, then 10years down the line having your 6+mm tread unchanged tyre blow out on you.

29th Mar 2016 6:22pm

Cetane

Member Since: 27 Nov 2012
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 171

Or you could rotate your tyres and replace all 4 as a set...

29th Mar 2016 6:24pm

miker

Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1768

In my daily I do enough miles that spreading the cost is nicer.

On the defender I'll probably do just that. But the mileage it does I'll end up replacing them on age rather than wear!!

29th Mar 2016 6:26pm

Cetane

Member Since: 27 Nov 2012
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 171

I can imagine.

Ive had a set of BFG ATs that were fitted new to one 90 and out lived the 90 that replaced it.

That was in my youth though. Nowadays I'm a little more conscious of tyres aging.

29th Mar 2016 6:29pm

Rashers

Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3529

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

I can remember a video being shown constantly on a loop in my local ATS a couple of years ago showing an Audi TT with new tyres fitted to the front, and then on the back, whilst cornering really quickly. ATS recommended that the new tyres go on the rear of the car. But an Audi TT is not a Defender. I expect a Defender cornering at that speed would not be worrying about which tyres had the better tread, but which body shop could repair the damage....... I would like to add that I was in ATS because the lease company who owned my company car insisted and that other national tyre chains are available

29th Mar 2016 6:55pm

Cupboard

Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey

If course seeing as the centre diff is the most fragile you want as close a possible speed front to back, therefore you're best replacing one side. Given that the passenger side is always in the ditch and therefore needs more grip and is more likely to pick up punctures, the new tyres should always go on the left.

Ahem.

I'd be putting them on the back myself, helps hill climbing if nothing else.

29th Mar 2016 7:11pm

miker

Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1768

Brilliant Cupboard!!!

Interestingly, I was asked to help move a caravan round a muddy field at the weekend. Not a lot of nose weight, it was the the fronts that let go first.

Disclaimer:
I am not proficient at pulling caravans across muddy fields.
This experiment was not conducted in a controlled environment.
I was running on 90 minutes sleep.

And yes, I did use difflock after giving up without very quickly.

29th Mar 2016 7:15pm

Cupboard

Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

Have you seen this video miker?

Start at about 1 minute.

29th Mar 2016 7:24pm

Rickydodah

Member Since: 14 Jul 2014
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 1091

Cetane wrote:
Rickydodah wrote:
I dare say that Christopher Columbus had a similar problem with those of the flat earth society who when given factual information still insisted that the earth was not round. Factual information is that, fact, not opinion or speculation. This forum is a real treasure trove of fact, opinion, speculation and conjecture the same as any forum. The problems arise is when those not adequately qualified post their opinions as fact. Those who are looking for guidance are often attracted to the opinion which most likely is close to their own and they disregard the truth. If this has no safety implications then I suppose it's okay to rely on opinion but when peoples wellbeing is affected then those who have an opinion should state that is what it is, an opinion not fact. I used to be a member of a forum of bomb disposal enthusiasts but the membership started to dwindle when posters with little knowledge started to post their opinions as fact........

So the only benefit of having yours tyres incorrectly positioned is that after some time you're likely to understand the difference between oversteer and understeer.

That's assuming that under braking both front and back axles retard the same amount. Which we know they don't. Load transfers to the front and that's why front brakes are usually considerably more meaty than the rears.

Newer tyres up front allow for shorter stoping distances as the compound is usually better. Also with greater tread depth up front they are better at clearing surface water for the rears.

The only reason I've ever heard of newer set on the rear is for vehicles with a Haldex centre diff.

Your "Facts" are questionable...

Only by the ignorant. I'm not here for a fight, my interest is in people's safety. I do not refer to any of my data only that of the tyre manufacturers. Check their data, do some research for yourself. Tyre technology is rife with myth. I don't understand your comment regarding front tyres have a better compound. Ideally all four tyres should be identical in terms of traction, treadwear and temperature. You'll see these indices marked on the sidewalls. When talking of variances in grip levels tread depth is only part of the equation however it's generally accepted that all being equal a tyre with a greater tread depth will perform better, particularly as you point out in the wet. Heavily siped tyres will perform better in the wet but tend to overheat in the dry because the tread blocks are allowed to move too freely against each other producing friction. Nowadays, tyres are basically all radial ply, though cross ply and bias belted are still available, cord infrastructure is mainly, nylon, rayon and steel, I've not seen any fibreglass for some years, thankfully, because they could be lethal in the cold! When there was such a choice any mechanic could tell you what was compatable because this type of knowledge was commonplace, heavily legislated and controlled with both the C&U regs and the annual testing. Land rovers were of particular interest because then as it is now all driven axles have to have the same tyre construction. I've no interest in what owners do with their tyres unless im going to be the target of their uncontrolled mass spiralling out of a bend towards me. I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

29th Mar 2016 7:24pm

miker

Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1768

Cupboard wrote:
Have you seen this video miker?

Start at about 1 minute.

Yup. Worry not, I was in first low just above idle. As soon as the fronts started to slip I remembered that the little lever moves left as well.

29th Mar 2016 7:38pm

Cetane

Member Since: 27 Nov 2012
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 171

The odds of someone spiraling out of a corner and hitting you is far less than someone failing to come to a stop in a timely fashion. Who in their right minds drives on the limit of lateral grip on the highway???

Companies tell you to put new tyres on the rear to cover their backside. If the car swaps ends (Highly unlikely) you *Could* argue its down to tyre placement, where as if you fail to stop in time its gonna be a case of not leaving a big enough gap to the car in front.

My comment about compound is that as a tyre ages, it's properties alter. It's usually becomes less compliant and delivers lower grip. If you take two identical tyres with identical tread depth but one is 2 years old the other brand new, then there will be a disparity in the grip they offer. Tread depth is only a concern in the wet, its the chemical properties of the rubber and contact patch that give grip. Think heat cycles in F1.

29th Mar 2016 7:40pm

YOLO110

Member Since: 14 Feb 2015
Location: Perth Oz and Stansted UK
Posts: 1645

Great video...

Many thanks for that post.

'Lock the centre Diff'...

YOLO... You Only Live Once...

29th Mar 2016 7:51pm

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